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<blockquote data-quote="Lyxen" data-source="post: 8605791" data-attributes="member: 7032025">Look, I will make it extremely simple, the order of combat tells you specifically: &quot;Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative.&quot;Are you applying this rule or not ? If you are not rolling, then you are not applying the rule, and are not following the RAW. It's as simple as that, because that extremely specific rule for THAT ability check (it's only that one dexterity check to determine initiative, not any other sort of ability check) is not countermanded by anything in the rules and certainly general ruls about ability checks applying to ALL ability checks,So you are calling the initiative rule &quot;general&quot; ? It's a single ability check for a very specific circumstance and you think it's more general for ability checks than every other rule about ability checks ?Honestly, this is pure BS.Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat#Initiative" target="_blank">initiative</a>Can you please read that sentence for me, and point out the cases where you don't roll ? It specifically says everyone. No, actually, as you've pointed out, they don't say to roll, and this is where you are trapped, they just say to &quot;make an ability check&quot;...The rule about the elf does NOT say that it ignores the other rule, so you are totally wrong about that requirement as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lyxen, post: 8605791, member: 7032025"] Look, I will make it extremely simple, the order of combat tells you specifically: "Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative." Are you applying this rule or not ? If you are not rolling, then you are not applying the rule, and are not following the RAW. It's as simple as that, because that extremely specific rule for THAT ability check (it's only that one dexterity check to determine initiative, not any other sort of ability check) is not countermanded by anything in the rules and certainly general ruls about ability checks applying to ALL ability checks, So you are calling the initiative rule "general" ? It's a single ability check for a very specific circumstance and you think it's more general for ability checks than every other rule about ability checks ? Honestly, this is pure BS. [B]Roll initiative.[/B] Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat#Initiative']initiative[/URL] Can you please read that sentence for me, and point out the cases where you don't roll ? It specifically says [B][U]everyone[/U][/B]. No, actually, as you've pointed out, they don't say to roll, and this is where you are trapped, they just say to "make an ability check"... The rule about the elf does NOT say that it ignores the other rule, so you are totally wrong about that requirement as well. [/QUOTE]

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