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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Decrease Ritual Casting Times
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<blockquote data-quote="Herald of I" data-source="post: 4477918" data-attributes="member: 71163"><p>So it seems to come down to whether or not the casting time of rituals is a significant balance factor.</p><p></p><p>There's only three ways that I can see it coming into play. (I'm feeling some lists <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> )</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If players spam rituals in 1/10 the time they can as written.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Given ritual costs, this already seems prohibitive.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Most rituals don't give benefits that grow better with repetition in the first place.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Even without those concerns, any abuse is not going to be much different from normal. An abusive combo is just as bad as an abusive combo x10. The real concern is whatever ritual the player is using.</li> </ol></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If DM's allow it to affect story concerns.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">As we discussed earlier, game time is entirely subjective and entirely pliable to the DM's whim. If the DM needs to interrupt a ritual for story reasons, it hardly matters how long the ritual is.</li> </ol></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">In combat.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Ten rounds is a really long and dangerous time to stand still in combat, making ritual use still mostly a non-combat tool.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Rituals don't generally have effects that are useful in combat, meaning players will have to strain creatively to come up with uses for rituals in combat, and I think this is no bad thing.</li> </ol></li> </ol><p>Is there anything in terms of game balance that I'm missing? </p><p></p><p>The only other issues with the proposed change that I'm seeing seem to be variations on the arguments:</p><p></p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">"That's not how it's written, and there's no <em>need</em> to change."<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">This is all a matter of taste. I don't think there's any way to argue this point either way.</li> </ol></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">"This could lead to rituals having too big a role, potentially eclipsing other aspects of the game"<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Again, this an attitude I don't think we can argue. I don't mind rituals having a substantial role in my game.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">I think some of this is lingering wariness of the 3E "utility belt wizard," which the basic nature of rituals in 4E gets around (they're potential accessible to everyone, expensive and far more limited in scope of effects) regardless of casting time.</li> </ol></li> </ol><p>I think that's a fair summary.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herald of I, post: 4477918, member: 71163"] So it seems to come down to whether or not the casting time of rituals is a significant balance factor. There's only three ways that I can see it coming into play. (I'm feeling some lists :p ) [LIST=1] [*]If players spam rituals in 1/10 the time they can as written. [LIST=1] [*]Given ritual costs, this already seems prohibitive. [*]Most rituals don't give benefits that grow better with repetition in the first place. [*]Even without those concerns, any abuse is not going to be much different from normal. An abusive combo is just as bad as an abusive combo x10. The real concern is whatever ritual the player is using. [/LIST] [*]If DM's allow it to affect story concerns. [LIST=1] [*]As we discussed earlier, game time is entirely subjective and entirely pliable to the DM's whim. If the DM needs to interrupt a ritual for story reasons, it hardly matters how long the ritual is. [/LIST] [*]In combat. [LIST=1] [*]Ten rounds is a really long and dangerous time to stand still in combat, making ritual use still mostly a non-combat tool. [*]Rituals don't generally have effects that are useful in combat, meaning players will have to strain creatively to come up with uses for rituals in combat, and I think this is no bad thing. [/LIST] [/LIST] Is there anything in terms of game balance that I'm missing? The only other issues with the proposed change that I'm seeing seem to be variations on the arguments: [LIST=1] [*]"That's not how it's written, and there's no [I]need[/I] to change." [LIST=1] [*]This is all a matter of taste. I don't think there's any way to argue this point either way. [/LIST] [*]"This could lead to rituals having too big a role, potentially eclipsing other aspects of the game" [LIST=1] [*]Again, this an attitude I don't think we can argue. I don't mind rituals having a substantial role in my game. [*]I think some of this is lingering wariness of the 3E "utility belt wizard," which the basic nature of rituals in 4E gets around (they're potential accessible to everyone, expensive and far more limited in scope of effects) regardless of casting time. [/LIST] [/LIST] I think that's a fair summary. [/QUOTE]
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