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<blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 3440528" data-attributes="member: 35788">Honestly, I think the cherrypicking is a much bigger perceived problem than an actual problem in game play.&nbsp; Although, with ever set of players the scope does change, so its best to know your players when reading online advice, of course!However, I as a DM am always confidence that I can create an encounter within the proper CR scope that will challenge any on of the party members.&nbsp; For example, the Fighter 1/Wizard X is down one spell level, one caster level, one level of WILL Save, up one level of FORT save, and up big time on AC.&nbsp; Personally, for as often as a mage's AC from armor gets used, I consider that a loss for the player.To challenge this character, have some of the opponents use touch type attacks that bypass AC from armors (and I believe thus bypass the class defense bonus - or houserule it that it works this way if it actually doesn't).&nbsp; It doesn't matter what your AC is when someone just needs to succeed on a touch attack.Area effect spells - especially those with a reflex safe - are likely to succeed as well.&nbsp; Use them, and use them intelligently.&nbsp; A Fighter 1/Mage X shouldn't have many more HP than a Mage X+1 ... so area effect spells for damage and a REFL save should still hurt them.&nbsp; Depending on the level of the party, even a small number of 5th level casters with fireball can make that guy sorry.I guess what I am saying is that I don't think cherry picking is all that big of a deal.&nbsp; I let my players do it if they want.&nbsp; Ask yourself how much a mage's AC actually comes into play during a normal combat.&nbsp; If you are like me, it doesn't come up all that much.&nbsp; Saves and touch AC come up much more often - in my experience, of course.&nbsp; That's why I don't worry about cherry pickers.&nbsp; In my opinion, the cherry picker is trading alot for a stat that shouldn't be terribly significant for a mage anyway.&nbsp; YMMV.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nonlethal Force, post: 3440528, member: 35788"] Honestly, I think the cherrypicking is a much bigger perceived problem than an actual problem in game play. Although, with ever set of players the scope does change, so its best to know your players when reading online advice, of course! However, I as a DM am always confidence that I can create an encounter within the proper CR scope that will challenge any on of the party members. For example, the Fighter 1/Wizard X is down one spell level, one caster level, one level of WILL Save, up one level of FORT save, and up big time on AC. Personally, for as often as a mage's AC from armor gets used, I consider that a loss for the player. To challenge this character, have some of the opponents use touch type attacks that bypass AC from armors (and I believe thus bypass the class defense bonus - or houserule it that it works this way if it actually doesn't). It doesn't matter what your AC is when someone just needs to succeed on a touch attack. Area effect spells - especially those with a reflex safe - are likely to succeed as well. Use them, and use them intelligently. A Fighter 1/Mage X shouldn't have many more HP than a Mage X+1 ... so area effect spells for damage and a REFL save should still hurt them. Depending on the level of the party, even a small number of 5th level casters with fireball can make that guy sorry. I guess what I am saying is that I don't think cherry picking is all that big of a deal. I let my players do it if they want. Ask yourself how much a mage's AC actually comes into play during a normal combat. If you are like me, it doesn't come up all that much. Saves and touch AC come up much more often - in my experience, of course. That's why I don't worry about cherry pickers. In my opinion, the cherry picker is trading alot for a stat that shouldn't be terribly significant for a mage anyway. YMMV. [/QUOTE]

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