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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5410239" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think the newer Expertise feats they put in Essentials are the ticket. Because they grant some interesting advantage besides just a flat attack bonus they actually are interesting feats. You get a chance to specialize in a weapon or whatever and pick some other little thing that is useful at the same time. Basically anyone with any math sense was already taking some form of expertise. Now they are DEFINITELY taking it but it isn't all just one single feat that feels like a tax. This pretty much solves whatever issues there were with it to a large extent.I'll stay out of the whole 'max fix' argument, as that one is just a dead horse.The DM should tailor the game to the players. Obviously the OP's players are not interested in being super optimized characters. So as others have said, just give them challenges that are fun for them. It is irrelevant if some other group of the same level is fighting stronger opponents. Not only that but they may well do better at some other things than at combat since they obviously put more effort into those things. The DM could also actually play off of their choices story-wise. Make a grueling endurance challenge that the dwarf blows the doors off of. Give the Eladrin an artifact spear to play with at some point, etc. Turn their idiosyncrasies into strengths of the game. Heck, play a bit on their weaknesses too in a mild way now and then. Make encounters with more and better offbeat ways to win, and such. 4e already seems to encourage players to do too little of that kind of stuff.</blockquote>

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