Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Defenses and To Hits for Your Party ~ Averages
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Nemesis Destiny" data-source="post: 5412850" data-attributes="member: 98255"><p>I suppose that this has always been true of D&D, and RPGs in general, but something about 4th edition really drives this point home: hitting is <em>everything</em>.</p><p></p><p>Maybe it's the way 4e makes the action economy feel more compressed. Maybe it's the way that most fights in our first 4e game turned into an infuriatingly long whiff-fest. Maybe it's that this is the first time I've really started examining the rules with an eye toward how they work. Nevertheless, it's very obvious that hitting really matters.</p><p></p><p>Big damage numbers look good on your sheet, but it means nothing if you can't connect.</p><p></p><p>So, basically, you should be actively hunting down every single <strong>useful</strong> hit bonus you can possibly find. I know not everyone will, but it is important. Not everyone will, and in a way, it may detract from the playing experience those gamers have. Perhaps it should have been hard-coded into the rules that everyone gets expertise right from the start, but they didn't think of that. It makes sense that those feats get given out for free. By making those feats have an extra rider, it makes them feel less like a tax (like finding out the government owes YOU money), but they are still pretty vital. I sort of hate it that the designers give you this resource to customize your character (feats), and then print feats that are not only so-good-that-you-would-be-silly-not-to-take them, but basically necessary to keep up with the game's [flawed] math.</p><p></p><p>I mean, sometimes it matters less than other times, and I have an interesting and extreme example I would like to share.</p><p></p><p>[sblock=lengthy anecdote]Our gaming group currently has 2 active parties in the same region. They are allies, for the most part, but one group is [was at the time] level 2, and the other has [at the time] a range of level 7-9. For story reasons, one of the level 2 characters was accompanying the higher-level party across the countryside when they were waylaid by their enemies. The encounter included, among other things, summoned undead bears (level 7 brutes).</p><p></p><p>At one point during the fight, the lower level character, a Tempest Fighter dual wielding shortswords ended up flanking a bear with the highest level character from the other group, a 9th level Weaponmaster wielding a powerful (+3) bastard sword and shield. Even without flanking, the Weaponmaster could hit the undead bear's AC on a roll of 2 or better. He was built for it; 22 Strength, accurate weapon, expertise, and weapon talent. Surprisingly though, the Tempest was holding her own. With CA, she was still hitting on an 8 or better, against a monster <em>5 levels higher than her</em>. She had 17 Strength, accurate weapons, +1 magic, expertise, and a +1 from tempest technique.</p><p></p><p>Now, of course, the bear could hit her on a 6, and due to roleplaying reasons she kept foolishly marking it. She got clobbered a few times, but made it through without dying.[/sblock]</p><p></p><p>I'm not entirely sure what I was trying to say anymore, but I'm sure it's somehow relevant to a point I was trying to make.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nemesis Destiny, post: 5412850, member: 98255"] I suppose that this has always been true of D&D, and RPGs in general, but something about 4th edition really drives this point home: hitting is [I]everything[/I]. Maybe it's the way 4e makes the action economy feel more compressed. Maybe it's the way that most fights in our first 4e game turned into an infuriatingly long whiff-fest. Maybe it's that this is the first time I've really started examining the rules with an eye toward how they work. Nevertheless, it's very obvious that hitting really matters. Big damage numbers look good on your sheet, but it means nothing if you can't connect. So, basically, you should be actively hunting down every single [B]useful[/B] hit bonus you can possibly find. I know not everyone will, but it is important. Not everyone will, and in a way, it may detract from the playing experience those gamers have. Perhaps it should have been hard-coded into the rules that everyone gets expertise right from the start, but they didn't think of that. It makes sense that those feats get given out for free. By making those feats have an extra rider, it makes them feel less like a tax (like finding out the government owes YOU money), but they are still pretty vital. I sort of hate it that the designers give you this resource to customize your character (feats), and then print feats that are not only so-good-that-you-would-be-silly-not-to-take them, but basically necessary to keep up with the game's [flawed] math. I mean, sometimes it matters less than other times, and I have an interesting and extreme example I would like to share. [sblock=lengthy anecdote]Our gaming group currently has 2 active parties in the same region. They are allies, for the most part, but one group is [was at the time] level 2, and the other has [at the time] a range of level 7-9. For story reasons, one of the level 2 characters was accompanying the higher-level party across the countryside when they were waylaid by their enemies. The encounter included, among other things, summoned undead bears (level 7 brutes). At one point during the fight, the lower level character, a Tempest Fighter dual wielding shortswords ended up flanking a bear with the highest level character from the other group, a 9th level Weaponmaster wielding a powerful (+3) bastard sword and shield. Even without flanking, the Weaponmaster could hit the undead bear's AC on a roll of 2 or better. He was built for it; 22 Strength, accurate weapon, expertise, and weapon talent. Surprisingly though, the Tempest was holding her own. With CA, she was still hitting on an 8 or better, against a monster [I]5 levels higher than her[/I]. She had 17 Strength, accurate weapons, +1 magic, expertise, and a +1 from tempest technique. Now, of course, the bear could hit her on a 6, and due to roleplaying reasons she kept foolishly marking it. She got clobbered a few times, but made it through without dying.[/sblock] I'm not entirely sure what I was trying to say anymore, but I'm sure it's somehow relevant to a point I was trying to make. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Defenses and To Hits for Your Party ~ Averages
Top