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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5412946" data-attributes="member: 82106">There are a few different aspects of this and a few different ways of looking at it, which is why it elicits such bitter (or at least long and tedious) arguments. The first question is what is "hitting enough"? Secondly is the question of where the to-hit bonuses needed to get to that number come from. Then there is the question about whether or not any numbers from the basic hit progression needed to be modified (and what really does 'needed' mean). Other questions are things like does Expertise create a larger gulf between some characters to-hit numbers and others. You can find every different opinion on this. Unfortunately some people have long since decided that there is an absolute right and wrong of it and simply repeat the same opinions cast as absolute facts every time it comes up. This happens on both sides of the argument, but the upshot is you can't have an actual rational discussion about it anymore on any board.As far as your reasoning goes it is sound. Yes, you need to be able to hit. BUT what I would observe is there are a bunch of ways you can attain the needed bonuses. The easiest way is surely taking Expertise feats, but clearly most characters without them still perform perfectly well. There are also a number of build concepts that benefit quite a bit less from having really high to-hit numbers. Builds that do significant auto-damage on a regular basis, rely a lot on extra free actions, crit fishers, and builds that do lots of multi-attacking are less impacted by small differences in to-hit. Many of them actually gain more from other feats. All of them eventually will benefit from extra static hit bonuses of course, but many of them are fine right up through level 30 even without expertise. Going without it puts more of a premium on team play in epic, but at least IMHO if you are playing epic you better know that aspect of the game. Expertise IMHO actually just kind of cheapened epic, made it work marginally less well, and totally missed the major issues with it (monster design, and weak PC defenses). That is where I've always been coming from.</blockquote>

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