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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kjenks" data-source="post: 2243101" data-attributes="member: 12892">There are two different concepts here: a grapple attack (which is a multi-step process) and a grapple check (which is used during that multi-step process).A multi-step grapple attack is somewhat similar to a two-step weapon attack. In a two-step weapon attack, you make an attack roll first and then you roll damage. The multi-step grapple attack is more complicated, and it can be thwarted (by a an AoO which does damage in step 1 or by a opposed grapple check in step 3), but it is definitely a melee attack which inflicts damage.A grapple attack is treated somewhat like a weapon, too. You can explicitly take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with grapple attacks. You can make a grapple attack as an attack of opportunity, which shows just one more way in which a grapple attack is a melee attack.Since a grapple attack is a melee attack, the damage bonus from Power Attack clearly does apply. The only real question is how much like a melee attack a grapple check is. The PH lists just one difference: size bonus. The wording and structure of the grapple check (BAB + Str + size mod) is just like the wording and structure of the melee attack, but with a different size mod. The FAQ is internally inconsistent. Customer Service gives conflicting answers. So it's just up to each DM to determine.So let's think it through.Does being prone affect your grapple checks (-4 penalty to attack rolls; FAQ supports this)? Do other condition modifiers affect grapple checks, like dazzled, entangled, frightened, invisible, negative levels, panicked, shaken, sickened or squeezing?Does charging affect a grapple check in step 3 (+2 to single attack at the end of the charge)? What about flanking? Higher ground? Does a Bless spell (morale bonus to attack rolls) affect your grapple check? Does a Bane spell (penalty to attack rolls) affect your grapple check?How about a Prayer spell (luck bonus to your attack rolls, penalty to opponents' rolls)? Does the attack penalty from Power Attack affect grapple checks? How about the attack penalties from other feats like Combat Expertise, Rapid Shot, or from two-weapon fighting or insufficient armor proficiency? And the tower shield attack penalty?My answer to all of these questions is YES, bonuses and penalties that affect attack rolls also affect grapple checks. This is easy to run, it's consistent with the PH rules and most of the FAQ answers, but it's inconsistent with the "Vow of Poverty" FAQ entry.You may, of course, choose to answer NO, but then you're stuck with the "something for nothing" problem with Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Fighting Defensively and tower shields. All of these balance some advantage (damage or AC bonuses) with attack penalties. If your attack penalties don't apply, all grapplers would always Power Attack and Combat Expertise all the way, and Fight Defensively, too, since they'd get a benefit with no penalty. And that's not in the spirit of the rules as I see them.</blockquote>

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