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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mostholy2" data-source="post: 2243851" data-attributes="member: 17664">I seem to think the issue of contention is if the opposed grapple check is the same as a melee attack.  Even though both are similar in the factors affected the bonus (as pointed out by kjenks) the grapple check is only stated to be "like" a melee attack roll (except that it is opposed vs. a set number).  WotC seems pretty specific when it comes to descriptions of bonuses and names for things.  Take armor bonuses for example, WotC makes it clear that shield bonus is different from armor bonus from deflection bonus, etc.   They do this to make sure that there is no stacking among similar bonuses.  The fact that WotC does not say that grapple check IS a melee attack and only mention that it is LIKE a melee attack would lead me to conclude that it is not a melee attack.  kjenk:  for your example of weapon focus/specialization (grapple), I would just point out that this could be interpreted as giving a +1 to hit on the initial touch attack (for the focus) and +2 for any damage incurred (for specialization), since each specifically states what the bonus applies to (attack/damage), neither of which gives a bonus for the grapple check (as the grapple check could be considered as belonging to neither category).After listening to both sides of this argument, I'm just going to houserule that attack bonuses/penalties cannot applied for non-attack rolls (ie. grapple checks), but can be used when choosing the "attack opponent" grapple option (as this is an attack roll/not a grapple check) w/ the caveat that CE/def fighting used in this context is useless b/c of lack of Dex bonus due to grappling circumstances.</blockquote>

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