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<blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 6130736" data-attributes="member: 6674889">Yes, if you ask for advantage, you don't get it. Here's your cookie for being a good boy <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I actually don't have a problem with that, but DMs are often overrun with multiple lines of thought during combat and it does make sense for players AND their characters' trying to get advantage and remind DMs they deserve a benefit for creative thinking. E.g. jump up on the table to be able to get a height advantage, while risking falling off it if he rolls a low dex check or perhaps the enemy decides to chop off the leg of the table (instantly succeeding, thus you're prone -- now he has advantage instead of you).What I'd like is a) NO way to consistently get it, except via height advantage (e.g. flying creatures would have it vs creatures on the ground, with melee attacks at least), or some other way that makes sense, and b) if a mechanic such as backstab requires it, then it should require a successful stealth check, meaning those DCs should be considered when calculating expected average rogue damage per round. 4e completely ruined Combat Advantage once they put out WinterTouched or whatever it was, then they introduced all sorts of other feats which were &quot;must haves&quot; and I do not want a repeat of that. No feat, class feature, or spell lasting more than a few rounds should grant consistent advantage. This is what keeps the gamers involved in the surroundings of where they are fighting (in the words of Yoda &quot;always thinking you, of the future, the past, never on what you were doing!&quot;) I don't want the environment to be &quot;fluff&quot; any more. I don't want a single feat to make it so I can ignore every single other way to get advantage thus every single combat scenario becomes the same as every other one. As a powergamer, CA feats in 4e were &quot;must haves&quot;, especially for rogues. We need to remove &quot;must haves&quot;, and make it so you ARE jockeying vs the DM to get advantage. That's part of the fun and challenge of playing a rogue!! You vie with the enemy for tactical advantages that allow you to slit their throats after they let their guard down and expose their jugular.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gorgoroth, post: 6130736, member: 6674889"] Yes, if you ask for advantage, you don't get it. Here's your cookie for being a good boy :) I actually don't have a problem with that, but DMs are often overrun with multiple lines of thought during combat and it does make sense for players AND their characters' trying to get advantage and remind DMs they deserve a benefit for creative thinking. E.g. jump up on the table to be able to get a height advantage, while risking falling off it if he rolls a low dex check or perhaps the enemy decides to chop off the leg of the table (instantly succeeding, thus you're prone -- now he has advantage instead of you). What I'd like is a) NO way to consistently get it, except via height advantage (e.g. flying creatures would have it vs creatures on the ground, with melee attacks at least), or some other way that makes sense, and b) if a mechanic such as backstab requires it, then it should require a successful stealth check, meaning those DCs should be considered when calculating expected average rogue damage per round. 4e completely ruined Combat Advantage once they put out WinterTouched or whatever it was, then they introduced all sorts of other feats which were "must haves" and I do not want a repeat of that. No feat, class feature, or spell lasting more than a few rounds should grant consistent advantage. This is what keeps the gamers involved in the surroundings of where they are fighting (in the words of Yoda "always thinking you, of the future, the past, never on what you were doing!") I don't want the environment to be "fluff" any more. I don't want a single feat to make it so I can ignore every single other way to get advantage thus every single combat scenario becomes the same as every other one. As a powergamer, CA feats in 4e were "must haves", especially for rogues. We need to remove "must haves", and make it so you ARE jockeying vs the DM to get advantage. That's part of the fun and challenge of playing a rogue!! You vie with the enemy for tactical advantages that allow you to slit their throats after they let their guard down and expose their jugular. [/QUOTE]

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