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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7097765" data-attributes="member: 6801228">This is pretty much what I would say 1d8+3-5 or 1d10 without mod for cantrips is the middle ground of good damage. It is longsword fighter and firebolt, both of which are fairly standard. Where things can get tricky is the group. (All following numbers are based off memory and subject to being slightly wrong)My game which just went on hiatus has a ranger who feels like she does pathetic damage with 1d8+1d6+4 and her wolf companion attacking for 2d4+9I also have a barbarian who feels like his damage is pathetic with 2d12+4+1d6+7 rerolling 1's and critting on 19's (often) And that's because they compare themselves to the Swashbuckler and the Assassin who've got 2d8+5+5d6 and 1d12+5+6d6 reliably. So, good for the base assumptions of the game seems weak when you start seeing people reliably hitting the high end of the spectrum, and are aware of ways that even those numbers can get overshadowed.  This leads us to "good" damage being "high" damage and the average looking bad in comparison.</blockquote>