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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 6258330" data-attributes="member: 2525">Did I use the word 'winning' once in my description? Did I even imply the players are frequently victors in any way? No, no I did not.&nbsp; You inferred it, without good reason.I said he likes to feel like he's making a meaningful difference in the events, and that his character that he is using for this escapism game is heroic.&nbsp; Heroes fail sometimes, and he's OK if the party fails as well.&nbsp; He just wants to feel like it was a heroic endeavor and one he played a meaningful role in.&nbsp; That's not the same as winning. Again, you inferred, in what I consider a bizarre way, some sort of &quot;winning&quot; from my description.&nbsp; That's in your mind, not in what I wrote.Where are you getting &quot;sustained amount of smaller damage in exchange for lower defense or lower average damage&quot; equates with &quot;winning&quot;? This is a well-worn concept.&nbsp; Most spellcasters have spells which do half-damage on a successful save, and the calculation there is a trade-off with other disadvantages of playing a spellcaster.&nbsp; Are all spellcasting PCs now played by players who simply want to &quot;win&quot; in your mind? Your argument BEARS NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL TO ANYTHING I'VE SAID.&nbsp; There are lots of objections to damage on a miss, but the one your making is nonsensical right now for this situation I am referring to. I keep assuming it's because you have all these ideas tied up with the damage-on-a-miss concept and you're just spewing those without paying attention to a much more specific issue than the general issue.&nbsp; But maybe I am wrong.&nbsp; Tell me how what I am talking about connects in any way with what you're talking about.&nbsp; Right now, your reaction isn't making any sense to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 6258330, member: 2525"] Did I use the word 'winning' once in my description? Did I even imply the players are frequently victors in any way? No, no I did not. You inferred it, without good reason. I said he likes to feel like he's making a meaningful difference in the events, and that his character that he is using for this escapism game is heroic. Heroes fail sometimes, and he's OK if the party fails as well. He just wants to feel like it was a heroic endeavor and one he played a meaningful role in. That's not the same as winning. Again, you inferred, in what I consider a bizarre way, some sort of "winning" from my description. That's in your mind, not in what I wrote. Where are you getting "sustained amount of smaller damage in exchange for lower defense or lower average damage" equates with "winning"? This is a well-worn concept. Most spellcasters have spells which do half-damage on a successful save, and the calculation there is a trade-off with other disadvantages of playing a spellcaster. Are all spellcasting PCs now played by players who simply want to "win" in your mind? Your argument BEARS NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL TO ANYTHING I'VE SAID. There are lots of objections to damage on a miss, but the one your making is nonsensical right now for this situation I am referring to. I keep assuming it's because you have all these ideas tied up with the damage-on-a-miss concept and you're just spewing those without paying attention to a much more specific issue than the general issue. But maybe I am wrong. Tell me how what I am talking about connects in any way with what you're talking about. Right now, your reaction isn't making any sense to me. [/QUOTE]

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