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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3915932" data-attributes="member: 22779">You played Rokugan without Oriental Adventures then?&nbsp; Cos, if you did, you changed a whole pile of core rules - completely new races, spells, iajutsu, monsters, alignment, honor, equipment (did I miss anything?).&nbsp; About the only resemblance of core D&amp;D to OA is in combat mechanics.Didn't Nyambe also require a few hundred pages of new stuff and remove most of the PHB?&nbsp; Didn't really read the setting, so I could be wrong there.3e may not have been Greyhawk, but, it most certainly was tightly welded to a particular campaign.&nbsp; Unless you started doing all sorts of adjustments, you can't ignore the wealth/level, magic purchasing and demographics of 3e.&nbsp; Change any one of those three core assumptions and a lot of the game gets a whole lot more difficult to work with.3e is mechanically wedded to a particular campaign range very strongly.&nbsp; You simply cannot do many other campaigns out of the box.&nbsp; D20 can do a wide range.&nbsp; But D&amp;D?&nbsp; Not so well.&nbsp; Oriental Adventures, Conan, Planescape, Ravenloft - all require a large swath of new mechanics and massive editing of the 3.5 PHB in order to run.The difference this time around is that we will have the same level of mechanical wedding to a particular flavour of setting, but, now, that setting will be specifically detailed right in the core book.&nbsp; And that fits nicely with the stated goal of 4e, which is to make it easier to run.&nbsp; KM, you mentioned earlier that D&amp;D is the Maker's game.&nbsp; Possibly.&nbsp; However, that also makes it much more difficult to bring in new people.&nbsp; The makers are always going to use whatever mechanics to make their own setting.&nbsp; However, there is a fairly large number of gamers who just want to get on with playing the game.&nbsp; For whom spending hours (or hundreds of hours) detailing a fantasy world isn't fun.&nbsp; They don't want to do it.&nbsp; I know that I don't anymore.So, now, apparently, we can pick up 4e, and the setting will be right there.&nbsp; In the DMG will be a well detailed hometown for the PC's to start in.&nbsp; There, that's enough setting to get a campaign up to about 4th or 5th level without the DM having to do any setting development.&nbsp; SOunds like an excellent way to get new gamers into the game, rather than saying, &quot;Hey, here's this game, spend 40 or 50 hours preparing your own world, which we won't really help you with at all other than to give maybe 10 or 20 pages in the DMG of advice about, THEN you can start playing.&quot;It's my believe that the core books in 4e are being written with new gamers in mind, rather than people like us who've been doing it for years or even decades.&nbsp; And I say GREAT!&nbsp; For the first time, the core books, the books that every new gamer sees first, are actually going to be targetted at helping them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 3915932, member: 22779"] You played Rokugan without Oriental Adventures then? Cos, if you did, you changed a whole pile of core rules - completely new races, spells, iajutsu, monsters, alignment, honor, equipment (did I miss anything?). About the only resemblance of core D&D to OA is in combat mechanics. Didn't Nyambe also require a few hundred pages of new stuff and remove most of the PHB? Didn't really read the setting, so I could be wrong there. 3e may not have been Greyhawk, but, it most certainly was tightly welded to a particular campaign. Unless you started doing all sorts of adjustments, you can't ignore the wealth/level, magic purchasing and demographics of 3e. Change any one of those three core assumptions and a lot of the game gets a whole lot more difficult to work with. 3e is mechanically wedded to a particular campaign range very strongly. You simply cannot do many other campaigns out of the box. D20 can do a wide range. But D&D? Not so well. Oriental Adventures, Conan, Planescape, Ravenloft - all require a large swath of new mechanics and massive editing of the 3.5 PHB in order to run. The difference this time around is that we will have the same level of mechanical wedding to a particular flavour of setting, but, now, that setting will be specifically detailed right in the core book. And that fits nicely with the stated goal of 4e, which is to make it easier to run. KM, you mentioned earlier that D&D is the Maker's game. Possibly. However, that also makes it much more difficult to bring in new people. The makers are always going to use whatever mechanics to make their own setting. However, there is a fairly large number of gamers who just want to get on with playing the game. For whom spending hours (or hundreds of hours) detailing a fantasy world isn't fun. They don't want to do it. I know that I don't anymore. So, now, apparently, we can pick up 4e, and the setting will be right there. In the DMG will be a well detailed hometown for the PC's to start in. There, that's enough setting to get a campaign up to about 4th or 5th level without the DM having to do any setting development. SOunds like an excellent way to get new gamers into the game, rather than saying, "Hey, here's this game, spend 40 or 50 hours preparing your own world, which we won't really help you with at all other than to give maybe 10 or 20 pages in the DMG of advice about, THEN you can start playing." It's my believe that the core books in 4e are being written with new gamers in mind, rather than people like us who've been doing it for years or even decades. And I say GREAT! For the first time, the core books, the books that every new gamer sees first, are actually going to be targetted at helping them. [/QUOTE]

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