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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9385083" data-attributes="member: 6684958">This is a big Old/New split.  It's gamist vs reality simulation.  In Old School a player simply tries and action, in New School the player macks a mechanical game move.Informed?Well, no one is limiting you as you are free to learn and expand your real world knowledge.  You can even goggle it.  Though many players don't want to do this.  So a player wants to role play an ancient wood elf druid, but wants to do it with zero effort or preparation.  To me, this seems to be all on the players choices.  No one forces you to.  Your free to play a "clueless" character.  Some OS DMs are fine with a player just saying "oh, my character says stuff" when needed and moves the game along.  This is also why I said OS is harder, has more Role Playing and is more intense.  Compare::Old School: When the character meets a group of wood elves the player must talk to and interact with them in real time.  The player must use the game lore, elf lore, and nature lore to say relevant things.  So the player could say "Fair weather bark brothers.  I am far afield from the roots of my ancestors, seeking a vile orc.  Might our branches touch, before we go are own ways?"  Now there is a lot to unpack in those chosen words and phrases.New School:  The player rolls and makes a check and their character talks to the other wood elves. It's a crowded world.Yes, but this is known as cheery picking.  Sure if you compare a preschool crossword puzzle to one 'hard' Candy Crush level you get the result you want.Again, it is the base line everywhere...not sure why you don't see that?Ok....but then what do you do?  The character comes to a puzzle lock on a door.  How do they get past it?  You don't give the player a real puzzle for them to solve for real, right?  You just have the player mack a check and the character solves the puzzle, right?Or are you just pointing out you don't give the player the answer to the puzzle as there is no puzzle and no answer.  Your 'puzzle' is just a game DC description.  So you can't give an answer to that.  The character just solves the puzzle and neither the DM or player know any of the details.Depends on the DM.  No....Old School IS that will work.  You need to drop the close.  It is worth it to do a quick interview with a potential new player to make sure they are a good fit for the DM and game.  Not everyone is.Sure I'll give them a puzzle or a logic problem or a story problem.  And if they say "bru, I don't want to think so hard! I just want to roll dice and kill monsters!" I know that person is not a good fit for my game.  I guess some weak OS DMs might say something like that.Well, it is fun for some people...it is not for everyone.  And in an Old School game it does matter.Remember Old School is the harsh near reality simulation.  Old School often put is huge emphasis on PCs vs nature and survival.  So, in such a setting there is not fresh water everywhere.  You mentioned Dark Sun, but I guess you have never played Old School style.  Well, the counter is why must the DM remember each of the characters items?  And doing something every time is just part of Hard Fun.There is a thin line between being careful and paranoia.  It matters if the DM says it matters.  Most OS DMs don't just "decide" something will happen no matter what the character do.  It is a path towards something that will happen if the characters take no direct action to prevent or stop it.  And yes, very often the characters can't stop an action....like their drinks will be poisoned, but they can stop it from effecting their character directly.It's a choice of play styles....the Harsh Cruel World vs Happy Go Lucky.  It's the Ant vs Grasshopper.  It's be prepared for anything vs Weeeeeee fun! Some people have a stocked Emergency Kit in their car and some people have nothing of the sort.  Some people have a Bug Out Bag....and some people don't.  Some people have Disaster Plans with a rally point and some people don't.Well, this can depend on the setting.  And the rest would be Old School game play.New School: The group gets invaded to the Barons' table.  They go.  Roll some social interactions.  And the game moves on to whatever is encounter next.  Old School: The game starts with the invitation.  It's highly unlikely an Os group would just say "okay-day we go and party".  They will dig a little deeper.  Why were they just suddenly invited?  Why did the baron pick them? Why now?  What is really going on?  This is a ton of game play and even more role play before the character even get close to going to the dinner.This covers both "giving away information" and "giving the players a free pass".When the players just roll for information you give it to them in a couple of minutes.  So when you say "bob went to school X" and then a minute or two later say "Fred went to school x" , most players can say "Hey".  And you just tipped your hand and ruined the mystery with a couple rolls of some dice.I OS does agree it is more fun for the players to have a chance to discover things...but only be doing real work and effort and role play and game play.  In OS gameplay, the characters are continuously learning things about the game world.  And most OS players take lots of notes.  This gives them a wealth of knowledge to draw upon as needed.  And it is so NS for the NS DM to give a wink or nod or hint or just come out and tell the players "this is safe" or "this is not a trap".  So then the players can just do whatever carefree   Of course, then you have to do the other side too.  So when something might be harmful or a trap the NS DM has to wink, nod, hint or just say so.  It is Hard Fun for Old School.So Character Death is Fourth worst?Sounds very Old School......"they feed me dung and keep me in the blind!"An Old School player would know what something means without the free pass from the DM.  This is the big difference.</blockquote>

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