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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 3036313" data-attributes="member: 12037">That's pretty much the complete opposite of my games. If I'm at one extreme, you seem to be at the other. All player knowledge as character knowledge? I just can't see how that would be fun. But, then, I doubt how you can see my way as fun.I find it difficult to describe exactly why I find it fun. Why do I enjoy anything I enjoy? There are reasons, yes, but once you get past those, it gets more and more esoteric. For example, you say that fighters would have heard of stories of monsters and learned how to fight them, but I say that half or more of those stories wouldn't have been true or embellished and are useless to them in the real world.Here's a question that might help. If PC1 is off screen and PC2 is alone, and PC2 does something evil (burns down an orphanage or something), would you find it wrong for PC1 to act on the information because the Player was present? Or would you expect the Player of PC1 to have their character not aware of what PC2 did? From your post it sounds like you wouldn't mind PC1 acting on information he wasn't present for, but I can't see how that would make sense in game.Pretending not to know stuff can be fun, too, though.As an example, I play a Paladin in one game, and another PC got a mission to go retrieve some information from some experiments with negative energy that a member of his group was doing because something went wrong. Now, as far as my Paladin knew, we were going to slay some undead. I knew, of course, the real job. But, my character was all about the killing of the undead there. It proved to be great fun dancing back and forth, my character pushing forward, talking about what a noble cause he was a part of, and his character having to keep us searching everywhere for the research and keeping up his act. It made for some great roleplaying, and it was a really great session.As another example, he kept using suggestion on me, and I failed the save for about 4 sessions being none the wiser to his tricks.That's interesting. Hmm... combat is a sticky point for us. We used to offer bits of help fairly often, and we've actually curbed this back. So, its a concious decision to avoid it when playing that we've trained ourselves on. I can't say we ever stopped to debate why it was a bad thing. It just was. We never looked deeper into it than that.Right, it's not immersion. Not that we consider the PCs as puppets (I think that was a playstyle at least). It's somewhere in between. In fact, we often skim over conversations in game when they aren't interesting to roleplay. Something like "The PCs decide its best to bring the prisoner in" or something like that, where its implied that they talked about it, but we don't want to play that out. Then we'll have the in character conversation when we think it would be interesting to play out.I talked to one of the group members who is also currently DMing a game for us. His reasons aren't exactly in line with mine, but I might as well post some of his comments, since his conclusions are the same as mine anyway. They might be interesting to read. I should probably note that sometimes the things he says shock even me.Quell is my PC. Yes, I sat back and watched while the cleric with the Sun domain didn't use his innate uber-turning ability against the undead. And died. I got better.If I can, I'll get some comments from another group member, who is pretty much the opposite of this guy, to really confuse things. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Hmmm, now I'm wondering if there is a certain immersion to it, but in a different way than the term is usually considered. It isn't what you think is what your character thinks. It isn't that what your PC thinks is what you think. However, it is somewhere in between. What you think is used to determine what your PC thinks. What another Player thinks is used to determine what his PC thinks. And never the twain shall meet, unless there is in character communication going on.</blockquote>

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