Demo for 4th level PCs -- Thoughts?

[Mentat55]

I am planning a 4e demo for my 3.5e Shackled City group. They are all experienced 3.5e players. There will be 5 PCs -- dragonborn fighter (or human wizard, he is waffling), eladrin paladin, halfling rogue, dwarf warlord, and eladrin ranger. I have back-up PCs that cover the other PHB classes and some of the other races.

The session should be about 6 hrs. I wanted to have a coherent, if somewhat plot-light, adventure. I definitely want to include an opening combat to get everyone used to the system, a battle that includes monsters and traps/hazards simultaneously, a skill challenge, and a boss fight against a couple of elite monsters (or one solo), probably with a hazard or trap thrown in.

For level 4 PCs, I am leaning towards classic D&D humanoids, either orcs or gnolls. I kind of want to throw in a dragon at the end, but an elite/solo demon or iconic D&D aberration might work as well.

Anyone do something like this before and have ideas? Any set pieces, encounters, or particular details you thought really showed off 4e's strengths well?

 

[Jack99]

What level will they be?

Either way, I will recommend against using a solo when neither you nor the players have any 4e experience. It's probably the trickiest part to get right.

My suggestion would be:

1 encounter involving minions, or perhaps, if you really want to show off, only with minions.
1 encounter with regular monsters and a hazard/trap
1 skill challenge
1 final battle with the boss, an elite something.

 

[Nebulous]

Sounds like a job for...Dungeon Delve! I haven't seen the book yet, but from what i've heard it's good for plopping into a campaign with little fuss.

 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Sounds like a job for...Dungeon Delve! I haven't seen the book yet, but from what i've heard it's good for plopping into a campaign with little fuss.

Great advise, DD is perfect for this sort of thing, and if you're a DDI subsciber i think theu put one of the delve's up as a free preview. If you don't want to invest in the book before you are sure you'll use it for more then just the one demo.

 

[Rechan]

This is a Demo. Which, in effect, is a sales pitch. You want to highlight the best qualities of the system, while trying to gloss over or avoid the problems. My suggestion? Avoid like hell a sense of grind, a "fight in a 8x8 room", highlight the uniqueness of monsters compared to 3e, etc. You sat in with your Shackled City game; what parts of the campaign seemed boring to the group, or garnered complaints? Do the exact opposite of that.

Put them in an encounter that's dynamic. The room is on fire. The tower is teetering and about to fall off a cliff into the ocean. They are in a giant clockwork device. Give it a different feel so that they immediately are outside of the Shackled City element of feeling somewhere static. The trap or hazard could be the things around the room, the set pieces, or it could be timed events (at the end of every round, something happens; a wall collapses, attacking anything that's adjacent, etc).

I would personally use gnolls. But that's just me. They're flavorful, there's a nice variety (especially with the gnoll-based adventure and the bestiary). Also because Orcs, with their "I heal myself" racial, can contribute to a bit of grind. You could also re-skin something. Kobolds and Kruthiks, reskinned, make great Xenomorphs; a battle with chest-bursting minions and skittery, acid-spitting kobolds is memorable, I'd say.

The characters you have is interesting. Potentially no controller, and 1.5 leaders (Cha paladins make decent secondary leaders). If you hit the party hard, they might find themselves in a "He's up! He's down!" battle. Especially if you target anyone who's not the paladin. Swarming them with minions when they have no controller might make an impression.

Further, look at that, two strikers (a rogue and a ranger). Whether he's an archer ranger or not, those two classes give themselves to mobility. An encounter in say, a large ruins, where you have tipped over columbs that bridge up to a second floor, and partial walls, might be useful. Especially to the two eladrin, who have those teleport powers; if they don't teleport, then they don't see it used in battle.

Additionally, strikers get bored with minions, because strikers are about doin' the damage. So, if you plan on swarming the party with minions, give the strikers something to shoot in the face. Like say, a big bad brute lurking just around the corner, as the party gets bogged down with minions, or a lurker that pops out.

If you wait just a week, PHB2 will be out. Now, I am not saying "Rush out and buy it", but it would offer some options (and even some options that 3.5 players haven't seen; the Avenger and Shaman, for instance). The Character Builder Demo on the WotC website can get you levels 1-3 (and since level 4 is just a stat boost and a feat, you can go up to 4).

As far as the Skill Challenge is concerned, be careful. There's errata about about various DCs for skill challenges. Also, presenting the skill challenge can be very difficult; it can come off very dumb, or very awkward for people who either don't "get it", or when the skill challenge itself is very dull. Make sure you present the skill challenge in a decent manner, or else it will come across very arbitrary.

 

[Festivus]

Just to relate a bit to what Rechan was saying about waiting for PHB2, one of the big complaints from my 3.5 group of friends was "Where is the barbarian, where is the druid, where is the bard?" in queries about their favorite classes when I ran a demo for them.

I wish I had demoed at a higher level than I did (I did level 1), because options were few for the players. Level 4 has serious options available, including the magic items powers.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Level 4 is good, lots to do without being too much. If you can do powercards then go for it. Do the fights in big open spaces with interesting terrain.

I'd be wary of skill challanges and solos, both can be tricky to get right.

 

[darjr]

The only other thing I'd throw in is a hybrid encounter. The skill challenge system can work really well in a combat for non combat goals of the pc's.

 

[Mentat55]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've never run a 4e combat live, but I have been running several 4e games via PBP, so I am least familiar with the rules.

I actually don't expect the group to go to 4e. We are still in the midst of Shackled City, and everyone seems happy with it. This is just an interlude -- but you're right, I should try to sell it, you never know if I can sway their opinions...

Re: gnolls vs. orcs, I think I agree there, the new gnolls, with pack attack and some of their other abilities, really jumped out at me compared to some of the other classic D&D humanoids. And they make good opponents for level 4 PCs.

I did not pick the party make-up -- I briefly described the classes and races, and everyone chose these characters. Should I bring some of the previewed PHB2 classes to the game? I already have a swordmage prepared, just in case.

 

[Rechan]

I did not pick the party make-up -- I briefly described the classes and races, and everyone chose these characters. Should I bring some of the previewed PHB2 classes to the game? I already have a swordmage prepared, just in case.

I would. Especially if you know if certain players gravitate to certain classes that aren't in the PHB.

Swordmage is a good idea, tho.