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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shemeska" data-source="post: 2855664" data-attributes="member: 11697">I'm more interested in the flavor aspect of it all, much less so the numbers or the tactical aspect of it. Above a certain point, I see no use in overt stats, both because the beings in question can't be accurately defined by the rules at that level, and also because the system itself falls apart into math homework once the sheer amount of numbers come into play. All respect to someone that wants to do that, if that's their thing, but a 6000 HD monster is going to be a nightmare to handle the numbers for. If I'm going to fight things that powerful, I'm going to gloss over stats or not use them at all both because of inability to quantify them and the nightmare of the system overwhelming me with +'s.Thus, give me avatars that can be honest threats to very powerful PCs. But if a PC wanders into a layer of the Abyss and up to the steps of Pale Night's castle of bone, they shouldn't roll for initiative and fight Pale Night sitting around somewhere. No. Abandon the mundane notions of orcs sitting in 5x10 rooms with a pile of treasure. No. The fabric of reality itself if going to distort around them, they'll be toyed with, and they're going to quickly realize that they're not so much fighting a single being called Pale Night, they're picking a fight with that entire layer of the Abyss itself, molded and defined by the Abyssal Lord in question who for all intents and purposes -is- her layer of the Abyss, not just the biggest monster on that layer. How do you fight something that can't be defined, nailed down, or accurately quantified? How do you kill a concept?Use avatars or projections if you want them as big monsters serving as end bosses for typical campaigns, that works out well without twisting around and mangling them. If you want to fight the archfiend themselves, you need to approach it differently than something mundane with just a lot of hit dice, because Dorothy, you're no longer in Kansas.</blockquote>

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