Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="ashockney" data-source="post: 2856004" data-attributes="member: 1363">I'm definitely in the camp that would prefer to see CR's for demon lords scale from perhaps as low as 22 up to as high as 60. Using the core game as it's been presented, we have three key "levels" to the game.  Standard DnD which is from 1st - 20th level.  Epic DnD which is from 21st - 40th level.Immortal DnD which is from 41st - 60th level. I will make a few broad sweeping generalizations based upon MY personal experience:The basic game breaks down considerably from 12th to 20th level. Epic DnD has flaws nearly too numerous to mention.  Surprisingly, if you whether the storm, it actually does play (with great tinkering) pretty well from 20th to 30th.  I've never seen any material on immortal DnD presented in format that was referenceable other than "as reference", but nothing really playable as a game without a TON of work.If this is the game, as it's been presented, demon lords should be represented broadly across this full (60 level) spectrum.  I, too, agree that the players should be able to battle a demon lord at the end of their campaign.  It would be ok, however, if this were not Demogorgon.  There should be many powerful/advanced demons, perhaps hundreds, in the CR 20 - 30 range.  One of the reasons that people should be so scared to encounter them.I do not begrudge the authors from wanting to make "accessible" to the greater market, the concept that by 20th level or so, you're trying to take out Llolth herself, on her home plane.  This fantasy sword and sorcery adage dates back to the original GDQ series of modules, one of the first published for the game.  When your group has truly traversed the untold perils that await them in these highest levels, and bested a "named" demon queen.  It is a story they can, and should, regale other gamers with for many years to come.  However, to make the most notable and powerful of the demon lords, all within reach of the basic game, demeans the game for any of those who desire to play the game to it's fullest.  It is akin to making a 60th level EQ raid, killable only by the most veteran players, in groups of 60 or more, with the most powerful equipment, something that a party of 50th level characters could best.  Were EQ to do it, they would lose a significant part of their consumer base.</blockquote>

Verification