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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kain Darkwind" data-source="post: 2856040" data-attributes="member: 23011">But then this brings up the question, does 'use' matter?  Would you advocate that same concept be applied to gods?  Should greater gods have a CR of, oh say, 24, and then have a method where you can 'scale them up' to keep them at least a level higher than the party cleric?  What about high level NPCs like Larloch or Elminster?  Should he be CR 20 or below because he is 'no use' to the bulk of DnD games?Great Wyrm Dragons aren't useful to games of sub-20th level, AS ADVERSARIES.  You shouldn't be basing the use of a creature though (much less a unique NPC) based on how many people's parties can roll initiative and walk away the victors.Great Wrym Dragons should be at the CR they are at.  They ARE that powerful.  If that means that you can't use them in your games as a combat, that's ok.  They don't need to be a combat.  Not all creatures in the game exist only to convert into XP for the PCs.Same with the demon lords, only on a higher scale.  They rule layers of the Abyss.  Entire layers that are larger than the planets that some campaigns are set on.  infinite layers, if you believe that idea.  Just because you aren't going to be able to beat them at a high level doesn't mean they should be that high level.Everything in the world does not need to exist for the PCs to kill.  A CR that is higher than they will ever be capable of matching doesn't make the creature/entity that it is attached to useless.</blockquote>

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