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<blockquote data-quote="Sledge" data-source="post: 2856876" data-attributes="member: 9324">To keep on topic, having them this low makes them ineffective by the rules.&nbsp; When the WEAKEST pit fiend stands a chance at usurping the demon lords, then what do the 54 hd ones do?Dicefreaks is a good measure for me.&nbsp; I'm not opposed to scaling on principal, just the insane scaling.Scaling demon lords from 30-50 is scaling and extreme at that.&nbsp; Just how much power can these cr 20ish demon lords actually wield.Someone once told me they thought if he wanted his 1st level party fight the evil necromancer that terrorized the land, then that necromancer should be level 1 or 2.&nbsp; There is no &quot;terrorize the land&quot; at level 1 or 2.&nbsp; The same thing holds true of the bigger bads.&nbsp; Anything that can tell pit fiends what to do needs to be MUCH higher in cr than the weakest pit fiend.&nbsp; Especially since pit fiends reach considerably higher cr's than 20.&nbsp; Especially since pit fiends can show up in groups of 4.&nbsp; Why would a pit fiend not destroy a demon &quot;lord&quot; that is its inferior?&nbsp; What exactly is the CR of a 54 HD pit fiend again?&nbsp; Given that the demon lord base stats are as weak as the base stats for a non lord devil there is a problem here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sledge, post: 2856876, member: 9324"] To keep on topic, having them this low makes them ineffective by the rules. When the WEAKEST pit fiend stands a chance at usurping the demon lords, then what do the 54 hd ones do? Dicefreaks is a good measure for me. I'm not opposed to scaling on principal, just the insane scaling. Scaling demon lords from 30-50 is scaling and extreme at that. Just how much power can these cr 20ish demon lords actually wield. Someone once told me they thought if he wanted his 1st level party fight the evil necromancer that terrorized the land, then that necromancer should be level 1 or 2. There is no "terrorize the land" at level 1 or 2. The same thing holds true of the bigger bads. Anything that can tell pit fiends what to do needs to be MUCH higher in cr than the weakest pit fiend. Especially since pit fiends reach considerably higher cr's than 20. Especially since pit fiends can show up in groups of 4. Why would a pit fiend not destroy a demon "lord" that is its inferior? What exactly is the CR of a 54 HD pit fiend again? Given that the demon lord base stats are as weak as the base stats for a non lord devil there is a problem here. [/QUOTE]

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