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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Psion" data-source="post: 2858341" data-attributes="member: 172">Herein lies the problem. You fundamentally do not understand the positions of those who think differently than you. Repeating the same assertion over and over again for every post in these two threads is not going to change it, because those who do not agree with you are operating under different assumptions than you.And here it is: AFAIAC, the MM does not show me a world. It gives me a toolbox. If you think back, recall that the 3.0 MM had all the high end fiends weaker. They were up-sized for 3.5 because the design team thought it would better support play through 20 levels. It was a mechanical and gameplay consideration, not a canon one.If you look at my post answering the OP, for the purposes of my game, I see archfiends in the uper 20s and 30s CRs. And I think canon supports that as well. And I think the fact the demonomicon articles putting fiends in the CR 30 range should show that the CR20 range was not a canon decision, but a toolkit one. Why? Most players don't play high enough for those stats to ever be used in play. The set of stats that would actually get used are most likely to be the ones printed, or close to them. Not the ones that reflect canon.</blockquote>