Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ripzerai" data-source="post: 2858470" data-attributes="member: 38324">No, there are really aren't. I think I and others rebutted Jester's points more than adequately. The dissonance in power scale between the MM and FC1 is as obvious as it is indefensible, and repeating the same assertations over and over again doesn't change that.(And the metric/imperial analogy was spot-on, or I'd like to know why not).No, you don't. You don't need to use Juiblex either. But if you remove balors from the game then isn't their inclusion in the MM a waste of space? If you can only use one or the other, then one of them is a waste.But I think that's a bad argument. Both books, as you keep reminding us, are books of options. In a rational design, that would be an excellent reason to use epic-level demon lords as the base assumption - so people would have the option to use them if they wanted. And then provide rules for scaling them up even further.But basing the MM on one set of assumptions and the FC1 on another is just weird. Again, my analogy was perfect.Of course, I'd rather they used the space on describing new Abyssal layers than on stats for Yeenoghu. But if they're going to include stats, I'd rather they were at least consistent with Core Book 3. The idea that "most people won't actually use" them is dubious. If the price of making them "usable" is to make them so weak that killing Yeenoghu is no more an accomplishment than killing one of his balor servitors would be, then the price is too high. It makes Yeenoghu superfluous to the game. The minimum level at which Yeenoghu is "usable" is the level at which he's distinguishable from his own servants.Kain's analogy - making a great wyrm as powerful as a very old dragon - is also apt. Why not just use a very old dragon? And you know this. Most of your arguments had been predicated on the idea that the Abyssal lords were at least slightly tougher than rank-and-file demons, until it was shown that this wasn't the case. Can we at least agree that they should be slightly tougher than balors are? Come on. Making that concession isn't going to insult anyone's home games or chosen playing style. The book could have perfectly well started the scale at CR 21 and brought Demogorgon up to CR 27 without requiring epic play to make them usable.</blockquote>

Verification