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<blockquote data-quote="Bregh" data-source="post: 1333307" data-attributes="member: 9285">I don't believe Type VI demons were intended to be the Abyssal equivalent of diabolic Pit Fiend. That's an establishment of 2nd edition's MC 8 and the &quot;Blood War&quot;.Type VIs are just that, Type VIs. Alike because of their shared characteristics, not because they fill some niche. In fact, the Type is disliked in the Abyss because they &quot;tend<s> towards a more organised evil (which makes it less than popular with demon lords and princes)&quot;.</s><s></s><s>And there's nothing in the MM to imply the info there is static, not wrt the numbers of Type VI, or that the demons given in the volume are the only ones available. Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth presented a host of new demon types, many of which will be familiar to AD&amp;D2 and D&amp;D3 players, that were heretofore unknown (these were collected in MMII), and more appeared in The Dragon, as well.</s><s></s><s>I don't see particularly were sense ought to be implied, or is even necessary. OAD&amp;D is bent more towards a loose style of play, where DMs use monsters as they need them or deem it appropriate--one of the reasons, for example, that OAD&amp;D DMs despise the &quot;Ecology&quot; sections that appeared in the second edition for bringing the limitations of coherent &quot;sense&quot; into the game. (Of course, lots of other DMs liked that sort of thing, too, and this preference underscores a shift in gaming philosophy--neither is necessarily more correct thant the other.)</s><s></s><s>As an aside, some of the perceived &quot;weakness&quot; of Type VIs in OAD&amp;D relates to its HD: 8+8, which are meant to be d10s, and not d8s, as established in OD&amp;D's Eldritch Wizardry, and confirmed on this board some time back by EGG (in one of the &quot;Q&amp;A&quot; threads). Bear in mind, OAD&amp;D wasn't formed of whole cloth back in the day, and the MM uses many conventions (Alignment, classes, &amp;c) based on OD&amp;D and not what would later became AD&amp;D. HD for Type V and VI demons are one of these. Using the d10 gives the Type VI a stronger range of HPs, and the most powerful/largest (ie. Balor) is as big and bad as a huge, ancient red dragon--certainly nothing to scoff at.</s><s></s><s>(edit: noticed a couple of typos)</s></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bregh, post: 1333307, member: 9285"] I don't believe Type VI demons were intended to be the Abyssal equivalent of diabolic Pit Fiend. That's an establishment of 2nd edition's MC 8 and the "Blood War". Type VIs are just that, Type VIs. Alike because of their shared characteristics, not because they fill some niche. In fact, the Type is disliked in the Abyss because they "tend[s] towards a more organised evil (which makes it less than popular with demon lords and princes)". And there's nothing in the MM to imply the info there is static, not wrt the numbers of Type VI, or that the demons given in the volume are the only ones available. [u]Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth[/u] presented a host of new demon types, many of which will be familiar to AD&D2 and D&D3 players, that were heretofore unknown (these were collected in MMII), and more appeared in The Dragon, as well. I don't see particularly were sense ought to be implied, or is even necessary. OAD&D is bent more towards a loose style of play, where DMs use monsters as they need them or deem it appropriate--one of the reasons, for example, that OAD&D DMs despise the "Ecology" sections that appeared in the second edition for bringing the limitations of coherent "sense" into the game. (Of course, lots of other DMs [i]liked[/i] that sort of thing, too, and this preference underscores a shift in gaming philosophy--neither is necessarily more correct thant the other.) As an aside, some of the perceived "weakness" of Type VIs in OAD&D relates to its HD: 8+8, which are meant to be d10s, and not d8s, as established in OD&D's [u]Eldritch Wizardry[/u], and confirmed on this board some time back by EGG (in one of the "Q&A" threads). Bear in mind, OAD&D wasn't formed of whole cloth back in the day, and the MM uses many conventions (Alignment, classes, &c) based on OD&D and not what would later became AD&D. HD for Type V and VI demons are one of these. Using the d10 gives the Type VI a stronger range of HPs, and the most powerful/largest (ie. Balor) is as big and bad as a [i]huge, ancient[/i] red dragon--certainly nothing to scoff at. (edit: noticed a couple of typos)[/s] [/QUOTE]

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