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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grover Cleaveland" data-source="post: 2682999" data-attributes="member: 34932">Ah, here's the quote: "Like larvae, manes are still petitioners." - Faces of Evil, page 42."Other tanar'ri do not consider the manes to be real tanar'ri - they are just petitioners, spirits of mortal berks who spent their lives on chaos and evil." - Ibid, page 44.Well, yeah, officially. I think we can stand a little more variety - that's just my opinion, though, and I'm not married to it or anything.I can't find any reference to that. I don't have a problem with it, but I can't find any 2e source that says it happens.Lawful and evil larvae evolve into nupperibos. Nupperibos are used as cannon fodder, sold to the yugoloths, or promoted into lemure form. This is the baatezu method of ridding their plane of what would otherwise evolve into the species that preceded them - the so-called Elder Baatorians."The nupperibos are slightly higher in station than the lemures, but they can never become higher forms of baatezu without first being demoted into lemure status." - Planescape Monstrous Compendium [page 26]"The lawful fiends put forth the lie that nupperibos are true members of their race, and that the bloated monsters are turned into lemures as punishment." Faces of Evil, page 14.So no, the advancement path from nupperibo to lemure to spinagon and so forth didn't change, only the explanation for it did.99% of them do. See Faces of Evil, pages 12-13. "Baatezu troll the layers for the hardiest larvae... and mold the things into lemures.""...by the time the baatezu came along, most of the ancient Baatorians'd vanished or simply hidden themselves away. But the larvae still grew into nupperibios... the baatezu tried to put a stop to that by molding the larvae into lemures - the "young" of their race. And it's still going on today. If left alone on the plains of Baator long enough, larvae naturally spawn nupperibos.""They also herd wandering nupperibos and 'demote' them to the status of lemure so they can join the baatezu race. But it's all a peel. The process isn't a demotion at all, it's a reshaping for selfish purposes, plain and simple."Lemures are an imposition of an artificial order into Baator's pre-existing order, as befits the generation of a species who personify conquest and domination. They're melted-looking because they're literally having the "impurities" melted out of them, so they can become the only "true" personifications of law and evil - baatezu.There is one exception - very rarely, baatezu of any rank pull themselves fully formed from the mathematics of Baator itself. This doesn't normally happen, but it's a possibility.</blockquote>

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