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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Silveras" data-source="post: 2575198" data-attributes="member: 6271">I'm not going to pick a "roll first/talk first" option because I think both are misguided, at least in the examples given. Most of the social skills (Diplomacy, Intimidate, Gather Information) are not one-round actions. Unlike combat, each die roll does not represent a single "unit" of interaction. These skills represent somewhat longer-term interactions, and their general tone. Now, Bluff pretty much IS a "do they believe this one" type of thing, but its success is predicated on what you say first. The opponent gets a bonus on their roll based on how far out your lie is. Obviously, you HAVE to define that first. So here's how I play them out: BluffOgre to 1st level PC: "Give money or we smash !"1st level PC to Ogre: "No, I don't so. We can take you." DM: Ok.. roll that one, while I roll his Sense Motive (At +5.. that's a pretty bold statement)DiplomacyThe Encounter sets the NPC's initial reaction. If it is not specified, I set it based on what makes sense: Shopkeepers are initially Indifferent to Friendly, minor Officials are initially Indifferent, etc. PC: Ok, well, we tell him our story. DM: Tell him, thenPC: "Sir, we came to town seeking ... and that's why we need to borrow the key to the city."DM (as Indifferent Official): "Sorry, but I can't help you, we have rules about how the key is used."-- compared to --PC: We make small talk for a while, try to get on his good side, maybe talk about the city's history. DM: That might take a whilePC: Ok, we spend ...10 minutes schmoozingDM: Ok, he does seem to warm up when you get to chatting about historyPC: I drop in some of the tidbits we learned in the last adventure about the founding of the city. DM: Ok, make a Diplomacy check PC: I got a  12 + 4 = 16DM notes that a 16 is enough to raise the NPC's attitude to FriendlyDM: Ok, he seems to really warm up when you add those bits. PC: Ok, now we get around to our business, and tell him our storyDM: Tell himPC: "Sir, we came to town seeking ... and that's why we need to borrow the key to the city."DM (as Friendly Official): "Sorry, but we have rules about how the key is used. They mayor is pretty keen to get that problem cleaned up, though, so if you ask him about it, he'll probably let you. He's over in the gardens this time of day."Gather InformationPC: We want to Gather InformationDM: Ok, what do you do ?PC: We split up; half of us go to one bar, in the poor part of town. Uh, the stronger combat half. The other half goes to a tavern in the better part of town. DM: Hmmm...Ok, and ?PC: We spend time there chatting people up and buying rounds. DM: What do you talk about ?PC: We talk about the disappearing shepherds in the fields. DM: Ok, how much do you spend ?PC: 10 gold in the poor part of town, 50 in the good part of town. DM: Ok, make a Gather Information roll for each group; best score in each group. PC: Uh.. that's a total of 5 in the poor part of town, and a total of 22 in the good part of town. DM: Ok... in the poor part of town, the people all seem very skittish of you. You hear a lot of "strangers askin' questions" as they turn sullen. DM: In the good part of town, you hear the head of the Merchant's Guild talking about how the wool merchants in the next town are making a fortune picking up trade that would have come here, normally.</blockquote>

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