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<blockquote data-quote="Baduin" data-source="post: 3797287" data-attributes="member: 45562"><p>Why people are so fixated on White Wolf? Myths, fairly tales, fantasy literature and most of all previous D&D books are sources for all those planes. The "Copyrightable names" are a rather strange convention in the style of Games Workshop, but the real names are pretty obvious. I think however that Gary Gygax had rather greater talent with words...</p><p></p><p>Faerie is a very old idea, rather popular in hundreds of fairy tales. See eg Tolkien's "Smith of Wooton Major" and "On Fairy Stories".</p><p></p><p>The land of the dead is also rather popular - a good example would be LeGuin's Earthsea. Here it seems to be combined with the Ethereal Plane - very sensibly. Here is at least an explanation for all those ethereal ghosts. The plane of Shadow is also added to the mix. </p><p></p><p>Astral Plane is a rather D&D idea - based on the spiritualists and Swedenborg, of course.</p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism</a></p><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg</a></p><p><a href="http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html" target="_blank">http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html</a></p><p></p><p>Dividing the realms of the souls into the Astral Plane and the Outer Planes made rather little sense. Combining them is a great improvement.</p><p></p><p>As for the Elemental Chaos - as many mentioned, it is taken verbatim from Milton.</p><p></p><p>Some interesting quotes from Swedenborg:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh61.html" target="_blank">http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh61.html</a></p><p></p><p>"In the spiritual world, that is, in the world where spirits and angels are, the same objects appear as in the natural world, that is, where men are. In external appearance there is no difference. In that world plains and mountains, hills and rocks, and valleys between them are seen; also waters, and many other things that are seen on earth. And yet all these things are from a spiritual origin, and all are therefore seen by the eyes of spirits and angels, and not by the eyes of men, because men are in the natural world. ...</p><p>...</p><p>The heavens are in the higher parts of the spiritual world, the world of spirits in the lower parts, and under both are the hells. The heavens are visible to spirits in the world of spirits only when their interior sight is opened; although they sometimes see them as mists or as bright clouds. .... But the hells are not seen because they are closed up. Only the entrances, which are called gates, are seen when they are opened to let in other like spirits. All the gates to the hells open from the world of spirits, and none of them from heaven....</p><p>...</p><p>The hells are everywhere, both under the mountains, hills, and rocks, and under the plains and valleys. The openings or gates to the hells that are under the mountains, hills, and rocks, appear to the sight like holes and clefts in the rocks, some extended and wide, and some straitened and narrow, and many of them rugged. They all, when looked into, appear dark and dusky; but the infernal spirits that are in them are in such a luminosity as arises from burning coals. Their eyes are adapted to the reception of that light, ...the light of heaven is thick darkness to them, and therefore when they go out of their dens they see nothing.</p><p>....</p><p> The openings or gates to the hells that are beneath the plains and valleys present to the sight different appearances. Some resemble those that are beneath the mountains, hills and rocks; some resemble dens and caverns, some great chasms and whirlpools; some resemble bogs, and some standing water. </p><p></p><p>... Some of the hells appeared to the view like caverns and dens in rocks extending inward and then downward into an abyss, either obliquely or vertically. Some of the hells appeared to the view like the dens and caves of wild beasts in forests; some like the hollow caverns and passages that are seen in mines, with caverns extending towards the lower regions. Most of the hells are threefold, the upper one appearing within to be in dense darkness, ... while the lower ones appear fiery, ... Some hells present an appearance like the ruins of houses and cities after conflagrations, in which infernal spirits dwell and hide themselves. In the milder hells there is an appearance of rude huts, in some cases contiguous in the form of a city with lanes and streets, and within the houses are infernal spirits engaged in unceasing quarrels, enmities, fightings, and brutalities; while in the streets and lanes robberies and depredations are committed. In some of the hells there are nothing but brothels, disgusting to the sight and filled with every kind of filth and excrement. Again, there are dark forests, in which infernal spirits roam like wild beasts and where, too, there are underground dens into which those flee who are pursued by others. There are also deserts, where all is barren and sandy, ...</p><p>In regard to the number of the hells, there are as many of them as there are angelic societies in the heavens, since there is for every heavenly society a corresponding infernal society as its opposite. ... the heavenly societies are numberless, </p><p>...</p><p>the hells are innumerable, near to and remote from one another in accordance with the differences of evils generically, specifically, and particularly. There are likewise hells beneath hells. Some communicate with others by passages, and more by exhalations, and this in exact accordance with the affinities of one kind or one species of evil with others. "</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Baduin, post: 3797287, member: 45562"] Why people are so fixated on White Wolf? Myths, fairly tales, fantasy literature and most of all previous D&D books are sources for all those planes. The "Copyrightable names" are a rather strange convention in the style of Games Workshop, but the real names are pretty obvious. I think however that Gary Gygax had rather greater talent with words... Faerie is a very old idea, rather popular in hundreds of fairy tales. See eg Tolkien's "Smith of Wooton Major" and "On Fairy Stories". The land of the dead is also rather popular - a good example would be LeGuin's Earthsea. Here it seems to be combined with the Ethereal Plane - very sensibly. Here is at least an explanation for all those ethereal ghosts. The plane of Shadow is also added to the mix. Astral Plane is a rather D&D idea - based on the spiritualists and Swedenborg, of course. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualism[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg[/url] [url]http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh00toc.html[/url] Dividing the realms of the souls into the Astral Plane and the Outer Planes made rather little sense. Combining them is a great improvement. As for the Elemental Chaos - as many mentioned, it is taken verbatim from Milton. Some interesting quotes from Swedenborg: [url]http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh61.html[/url] "In the spiritual world, that is, in the world where spirits and angels are, the same objects appear as in the natural world, that is, where men are. In external appearance there is no difference. In that world plains and mountains, hills and rocks, and valleys between them are seen; also waters, and many other things that are seen on earth. And yet all these things are from a spiritual origin, and all are therefore seen by the eyes of spirits and angels, and not by the eyes of men, because men are in the natural world. ... ... The heavens are in the higher parts of the spiritual world, the world of spirits in the lower parts, and under both are the hells. The heavens are visible to spirits in the world of spirits only when their interior sight is opened; although they sometimes see them as mists or as bright clouds. .... But the hells are not seen because they are closed up. Only the entrances, which are called gates, are seen when they are opened to let in other like spirits. All the gates to the hells open from the world of spirits, and none of them from heaven.... ... The hells are everywhere, both under the mountains, hills, and rocks, and under the plains and valleys. The openings or gates to the hells that are under the mountains, hills, and rocks, appear to the sight like holes and clefts in the rocks, some extended and wide, and some straitened and narrow, and many of them rugged. They all, when looked into, appear dark and dusky; but the infernal spirits that are in them are in such a luminosity as arises from burning coals. Their eyes are adapted to the reception of that light, ...the light of heaven is thick darkness to them, and therefore when they go out of their dens they see nothing. .... The openings or gates to the hells that are beneath the plains and valleys present to the sight different appearances. Some resemble those that are beneath the mountains, hills and rocks; some resemble dens and caverns, some great chasms and whirlpools; some resemble bogs, and some standing water. ... Some of the hells appeared to the view like caverns and dens in rocks extending inward and then downward into an abyss, either obliquely or vertically. Some of the hells appeared to the view like the dens and caves of wild beasts in forests; some like the hollow caverns and passages that are seen in mines, with caverns extending towards the lower regions. Most of the hells are threefold, the upper one appearing within to be in dense darkness, ... while the lower ones appear fiery, ... Some hells present an appearance like the ruins of houses and cities after conflagrations, in which infernal spirits dwell and hide themselves. In the milder hells there is an appearance of rude huts, in some cases contiguous in the form of a city with lanes and streets, and within the houses are infernal spirits engaged in unceasing quarrels, enmities, fightings, and brutalities; while in the streets and lanes robberies and depredations are committed. In some of the hells there are nothing but brothels, disgusting to the sight and filled with every kind of filth and excrement. Again, there are dark forests, in which infernal spirits roam like wild beasts and where, too, there are underground dens into which those flee who are pursued by others. There are also deserts, where all is barren and sandy, ... In regard to the number of the hells, there are as many of them as there are angelic societies in the heavens, since there is for every heavenly society a corresponding infernal society as its opposite. ... the heavenly societies are numberless, ... the hells are innumerable, near to and remote from one another in accordance with the differences of evils generically, specifically, and particularly. There are likewise hells beneath hells. Some communicate with others by passages, and more by exhalations, and this in exact accordance with the affinities of one kind or one species of evil with others. " [/QUOTE]
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