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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5647890" data-attributes="member: 7006">I really need to see the whole shebang first because I'm sure my concerns would be alleviated then... but one issue I see with skill use devolving back to ability scores is that if combat bonuses stay as is (like we have currently where each class has a primary and one/two secondary abilities) then each class basically becomes "this skill's class", with very little opportunity for variation.With each class's combat skills currently pretty much based off of one particular ability score, it guarantees it's going to be the highest score the character has.  Which means that (for instance) every warpriest will be great at Perception, Nature, and Insight regardless if it makes sense for the character to be.  Granted, we have a similar issue in 4E, but that gets alleviated a certain extent by the +5 to the skill based upon training (so that a fighter with no appreciable Charisma score can at least equal a Bard in Diplomacy if the fighter becomes trained in it and the bard doesn't).  But with taking a "skill" in Mearls' concept only granting a +2, it'll be harder and harder for classes with dump scores ever becoming as good in certain things as other classes based purely upon the fact they need the high ability score for combat reasons.  And that just doesn't sit very well with me.I think 4E took a great leap forward by having all six ability scores become "useful" finally  by making each one a primary combat stat for different classes.  But by doing that... it did cause the condundrum of every generic swordmage somehow being almost as knowledgeable about Religion as a trained divine character.  If this is the new way of doing skills... then I think it might finally be time to follow Mutants & Mastermind's lead and just completely separate a character's combat ability from the ability scores altogether.  Because so long as each class has a primary and one or two secondary ability scores that all their combat is based upon... and an escalating point-buy system that allows you to blow all your points on a high primary and just enough left over for a single secondary (and thus dumping the same other three each and every time)... almost every character created in any single class will be just as good in certain skills and just as bad in others regardless of what an individual player might actually want to create.  Because while a player might WANT to have his fighter actually be good at Bluff... the combat system and point-buy system almost guarantees that it's just not really feasible to get his Charisma that high without completely gimping his character in combat.  And unless there's a complete shift of emphasis in the game... combat effectiveness will ALWAYS trump effectiveness in other areas in this game of D&D.</blockquote>

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