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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 3898493" data-attributes="member: 48965">Well this is definitely a personal thing (the preference for or against minis), so I don't think either of us will convince the other.  I have also used dungeon tiles (these things iritate me with how easily they slide around and move, but other than that they're ok) and minis.  My problem is there are times where I don't have the room or the inclination to set all this stuff up if a game is already flowing very well.  I don't mind it for major encounters but with the new paradigm it seems even minor encounters will be a hassle to run without them.  Another problem I have is storage for this extra stuff.  IMHO 3.5 was as mini-centric as I wanted to go...and 4e seems even moreso.  Should it be there for those who want it? Sure.  But that doesn't mean I think the games fundamental play should revolve around it.  I understand DDM (and SW minis) are WotC's cash cows, but I also want to chill and play without needing the space and necessary time to have to set all that up.Agreed to a point...since I think this only applies to animals.  Intelligent creatures have and will use things that may be detrimental to themselves for protection or to attack others.  Humans use poison but (except for the exceptionally rare case) aren't immune to it's effects.It is still a factor that slows play down, that seems increased by all the if/then statements necessary to "run" what is essentially a poisonous piece of fungus.I was wondering when the whole just take it out argument would pop up.  Well this is all dependant upon how integrated the systems and subsystems are in D&D 4e.  If monsters are created and ranked with the implicit assumption that terrain will be used as well in an encounter then it could be a nice bit of work to run without.Never said it "will be too dificult or complicated to run".  Using trigonometry or calculus problems isn't too complicated to run a game either...but I wouldn't consider a game that ran on such principles to be streamlined or quick in play either. (I probably wouldn't consider it much fun either, now that I think about it.) This reminds me of when they announced PC's/NPC's and monsters would all be built using the same principles.  In theory everyone loved it (and it was a good idea, though not for a human preped/ran game)...however as time wore on it became a problem for more and more DM's, especially at higher levels.  I see this overly detailed terrain going the same way.  It will be lauded by most at first, but as more and more people play they will find it bogs down play and probably could be accomplished with simpler rules.  I never said I didn't like the idea...what I don't like (as presented so far) is the implementation.</blockquote>

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