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<blockquote data-quote="Jinete" data-source="post: 3900305" data-attributes="member: 55689">And all of these tools, diaries, shopping lists are very useful. But when someone else gives me a shopping list I go to the store and just go from shelf to shelf until I have completed the list. I don't browse, I don't even think about if the list is missing something I just get each item on the list, pay, go home, get the reward <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In one of the recent sessions, the barbarian was fighting the barkeep who was standing on the bar. On his turn the player said &quot;I try to push him of the bar&quot;. This left most of us (to some extent the DM too) pretty surprised. It's not a bull rush, it's not a trip, it's not a grapple, but it's a fairly reasonable thing to do. However most of us are thinking of our character's in game options based on the rules of the game, so if it's not covered in the rules it doesn't even cross our minds.My point: just like the many rules for combat IMO limit player creativeness to using clever combinations of possible maneuvers (ToB anyone?), quest cards result in player focus on DM given quests, making it easier to ignore the &quot;unnecessary&quot; NPC's and parts of the campaign world.&nbsp;And from a player's point of view, these are the ones that give the feeling of playing in an imaginary world, as opposed to playing in a detailedly scripted video game environment.Disclaimer: I'm not trying to say OMG 4e is an anime MMORPG, I just have that nagging &quot;haven't I seen this somewhere&quot; feeling.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jinete, post: 3900305, member: 55689"] And all of these tools, diaries, shopping lists are very useful. But when someone else gives me a shopping list I go to the store and just go from shelf to shelf until I have completed the list. I don't browse, I don't even think about if the list is missing something I just get each item on the list, pay, go home, get the reward :) In one of the recent sessions, the barbarian was fighting the barkeep who was standing on the bar. On his turn the player said "I try to push him of the bar". This left most of us (to some extent the DM too) pretty surprised. It's not a bull rush, it's not a trip, it's not a grapple, but it's a fairly reasonable thing to do. However most of us are thinking of our character's in game options based on the rules of the game, so if it's not covered in the rules it doesn't even cross our minds. My point: just like the many rules for combat IMO limit player creativeness to using clever combinations of possible maneuvers (ToB anyone?), quest cards result in player focus on DM given quests, making it easier to ignore the "unnecessary" NPC's and parts of the campaign world. And from a player's point of view, these are the ones that give the feeling of playing in an imaginary [B]world[/B], as opposed to playing in a detailedly scripted video game environment. Disclaimer: I'm not trying to say OMG 4e is an anime MMORPG, I just have that nagging "haven't I seen this somewhere" feeling. [/QUOTE]

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