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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 4110827" data-attributes="member: 2268">Here you already mentioned something that didn't just annoy people when they discussed it outside of the actual game, but while playing, and for quite a while...the Vancian Magic system of older editions. There's enough players that will curse, complain, and discuss the so-called "fire and forget" of 3E and earlier with gusto while somebody else ticks down the spells for his daily memorization. That is not something that only happened outside of games. Or only in the past. For some reason, Vancian Magic is still the biggest thorn in many players' sides. The same goes, in my experience, for Attacks of Opportunity, a mechanic that caused a lot of discussions to pop up around my table, and mostly because we don't use minis or battlemaps. It took suspending them completely for us to have a smooth game again.Some people will simply play, and others will see a rules mechanic and immediately start thinking about it, how it applies to the game, the consequences of it, and how it can be exploited. And a lot will immediately voice their dislike if they think the rule is "lame" or "broken". Which will simply cloud, or blot out, any fun the rule might create if applied without thinking too much about it.As an aside, coming to Shadowrun from D&D, I had a hell of a lot of fun with their magic system, and still love the game as a whole, even if I had to houserule some sense into 1E before it worked for me. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> I'm pretty much open about different games and their rules workings. I guess it's the fact that this is D&D 4E we're talking about that lets me take a much closer look at it to see if it has the right feeling for me to be D&D. As its own game, I'd not take a second look at it...wouldn't play it either, though, due to having enough stuff I want to play still, and too little time already. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></blockquote>

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