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Design Thread - "What makes a Knight?"
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<blockquote data-quote="Benjamin Olson" data-source="post: 8043292" data-attributes="member: 6988941"><p>I think knighthood is something better treated in a game with a more developed social status mechanic. I actually like a lot of elements here, but I think some of the most interesting don't really require a class to support. "The Quest" really just means having more chivalric romance oriented quests in the game. I also think it is a little awkward given how the Paladin class has developed and that there are now three Fighter subclasses with knight in the title, not including cavalier, named after a synonym for knight, to shoehorn in a "Knight" class. Knight is also a background.</p><p></p><p>But, to treat the actual mechanical features:</p><p></p><p>Proficiencies: Not giving them light armor proficiency is a little weird, even if you don't intend for them to ever use it. Saving throws seem right on. Armorer's tools is a nice touch. Skill list is appropriate.</p><p></p><p>Equipment list: seems to have some unclear language, but I like that they start with a mount. Knights should stay away from anything so egalitarian as a light crossbow. I would give them a lance, shield, longsword and one additional martial weapon.</p><p></p><p>Vow points: Cool idea but I don't really like how these are implemented. For one thing I'm not clear on when you ever get more than two. For another, way too many abilities are drawing on this same resource, and honestly few of them seem like they have to be limited resource abiliites at all. The ways to regain are a mixed bag. I really like the idea of getting them through "single combat", but tracking your percentage of damage is complicated (especially for a DM dealing with resistances), so some other method of determining if it's single combat would be better. </p><p></p><p>Ironside: This is cool, but you need to not use the word reaction, unless they are spending their reaction. Reaction is a term of art in 5e. If they are spending their reaction, they probably shouldn't also be limited by vow points.</p><p></p><p>Challenge: Very cool, but remember that creatures often have personalities. It would be better if they just suffered a penalty for not answering your challenge (disadvantage? psychic damage?) rather than being absolutely compelled to drop everything and fight you. It's weird that this both costs and generates vow points. It is something that does need to be limited use, so the limited vow points resource makes sense here.</p><p></p><p>Leadership: This is cool. Why is it limited by both your level and vow points? Pick one.</p><p></p><p>Extra Attack: Should come at 5th level to be in line with all the other martial characters. 6th level is for bladesingers and battle bards. A second extra attack is stepping on the Fighter's toes in 5e, which is fine, but something else more unique for their third tier power boost (which should come at level 11) would be better. At least the extra attacks don't require vow points.</p><p></p><p>For Honor: Whether this is balanced or not really requires making it clearer how many vow points you have. You really shouldn't be able to do it more than about once a day at this level.</p><p></p><p>I won't go in to subclasses except to say that some of them just add like 5 more ways to use vow points and you really need to have fewer things running off this limited resource.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Benjamin Olson, post: 8043292, member: 6988941"] I think knighthood is something better treated in a game with a more developed social status mechanic. I actually like a lot of elements here, but I think some of the most interesting don't really require a class to support. "The Quest" really just means having more chivalric romance oriented quests in the game. I also think it is a little awkward given how the Paladin class has developed and that there are now three Fighter subclasses with knight in the title, not including cavalier, named after a synonym for knight, to shoehorn in a "Knight" class. Knight is also a background. But, to treat the actual mechanical features: Proficiencies: Not giving them light armor proficiency is a little weird, even if you don't intend for them to ever use it. Saving throws seem right on. Armorer's tools is a nice touch. Skill list is appropriate. Equipment list: seems to have some unclear language, but I like that they start with a mount. Knights should stay away from anything so egalitarian as a light crossbow. I would give them a lance, shield, longsword and one additional martial weapon. Vow points: Cool idea but I don't really like how these are implemented. For one thing I'm not clear on when you ever get more than two. For another, way too many abilities are drawing on this same resource, and honestly few of them seem like they have to be limited resource abiliites at all. The ways to regain are a mixed bag. I really like the idea of getting them through "single combat", but tracking your percentage of damage is complicated (especially for a DM dealing with resistances), so some other method of determining if it's single combat would be better. Ironside: This is cool, but you need to not use the word reaction, unless they are spending their reaction. Reaction is a term of art in 5e. If they are spending their reaction, they probably shouldn't also be limited by vow points. Challenge: Very cool, but remember that creatures often have personalities. It would be better if they just suffered a penalty for not answering your challenge (disadvantage? psychic damage?) rather than being absolutely compelled to drop everything and fight you. It's weird that this both costs and generates vow points. It is something that does need to be limited use, so the limited vow points resource makes sense here. Leadership: This is cool. Why is it limited by both your level and vow points? Pick one. Extra Attack: Should come at 5th level to be in line with all the other martial characters. 6th level is for bladesingers and battle bards. A second extra attack is stepping on the Fighter's toes in 5e, which is fine, but something else more unique for their third tier power boost (which should come at level 11) would be better. At least the extra attacks don't require vow points. For Honor: Whether this is balanced or not really requires making it clearer how many vow points you have. You really shouldn't be able to do it more than about once a day at this level. I won't go in to subclasses except to say that some of them just add like 5 more ways to use vow points and you really need to have fewer things running off this limited resource. [/QUOTE]
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Design Thread - "What makes a Knight?"
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