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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gene Sollows" data-source="post: 7031561" data-attributes="member: 6873637">I've been running a large group for a over a year.  It's a shared campaign where the DM has a character; we typically have 8-9 PCs per session, and we run for 4-6 hours per session.  My players are all experienced gamers in their 40s+.I have had my ass handed to me regularly by this party until I stepped up the difficulty.  Basically I don't create any encounters that aren't at least 'hard,' and most are 'deadly.'  I have found if I don't do this the fights are boring, few resources are used, and the players start taking ridiculous risks just to inject their own danger.  THE PLAYERS HAVE TO RESPECT YOUR MONSTERS.Simply put, the 'action economy' (there's a search term for you, I promise) of a larger group, combined with more players out-thinking you (as the DM) means they're going to do more on their turns than you are on yours.  The players by early tier 2 (level 5-6) will mostly be AC 18+, have +8 or more to hit regularly, and be able to consistently deal good damage every turn to most of your monsters.  The monsters in turn do not generally have very high ACs -- only 'boss' monsters have decent (18ish) ACs, the rest are typically in the 13-16 range.You therefore need to get out your big damage and/or control effects early and often, because otherwise the fight will be over before it begins.  This is of supreme importance when dealing with groups larger than 5 PCs.Also in a large party you run into the initiative problem.  If your monster(s) roll poorly, they will get pounded hard and fast and you may never get a chance to get out your cool monster abilities.  Combats (even the big ones) usually only last 3-4 rounds against a large party.  Your monsters have to "smoke 'em while they got 'em."  Don't hold back or fudge for the players.  Roll out front of the DM screen and make them feel the criticals.  If you have an enemy wizard with fireball, cast it.  If you can't bring yourself to do it, then don't put the monster in there.  You have to be willing to kill some people from time to time and make them play smart and respect your monsters. You therefore have to compensate by either setting the stage to give your monsters lots of advantages (e.g., flying monster, underwater encounter, separate the party, surprise, etc.) or simply hammer them with a big encounter with monsters that have complimentary abilities.Here's a real life six-hour session with 17 (!) player-characters (it was the culmination of a story arc involving multiple PC groups converging on a common climax).  The PCs were 3-6 level, though most were 4th or 5th.Encounter 1: Giant Cave.  1 Gnoll Pack Leader, 1 evil Druid (upped to 9th level), 5 Fangs of Yeenoghu, 12 Gnolls, 14 Hyenas.  The players were attacked from three sides.This encounter lasted about 3 rounds.  My monsters could barely touch the players.  I was convinced that the Fangs would kill someone and maybe a hyena could do the gnoll transformation thing by feeding on the corpse.  Not even close.Encounter 2: Big crypt.  1 Mage (with Necro spells), 2 Wraiths, 10 Wights.  This actually went pretty well for the monsters.  I managed to kill a PC with a critical life draining attack from a Wraith after one of the clerics turned about half of them, and reduced the hit point maximums on a few other players.  The mage's actions got sucked up dispelling the other cleric's daylight spells, so kudos to the PC for essentially neutralizing the BBEG.Encounter 3: Massive Greathall.  1 Warlord, 1 Warpriest, 1 Master Thief (all from Volo's, some with extra stuff), 4 hill giants, 20 bandits, 4 thugs, 2 veterans.  On paper this looked like I would annihilate them.  But I knew better.  Slow and Stinking Cloud controlled a few of the tough NPCs and giants early, and the low CR monsters were good mostly for absorbing the area effect damage spells.  The giants did pretty good as meatbags but the party killed everything but the 3 NPCs who managed to retreat.Initiative was key here.  My Warpriest and Master Thief barely got in the fight due to early control by the PCs.  We crammed all three of those encounters into a 6.5 hour session without stopping.  It's hard to get much done with a big group, even when your players are helping out (in ways already suggested here).  Some of the fun scene-setting, setup encounters just don't work as well with big groups.  It's often easier to DM-fiat / "box text" through some of that stuff so that you can keep the group engaged in the next encounter.RE: space requirements, to echo what others have written, you need adequate room to house such encounters.  The standard 10x10 hallway and 30x30 chamber from 1st edition doesn't work with large parties, though I know Gygax routinely ran for large parties and didn't change a thing.  I guess that's why everyone had a polearm, bow, and/or 10' pole.I don't recommend giant groups except for fun massive battles from time to time.  The RP, exploration, and other game elements are better with a group of 3-6 players.  Everyone gets to be unique and have a chance to shine in a smaller group.For this reason we're actually considering splitting the group into two tables, even though it takes another player out of rotation to be a DM.  Lastly, because of the sheer volume of class abilities and spells, you need to assume that your players will be able to access a multitude of bonuses for various skill checks.  The PCs will be difficult to surprise, catch in traps, etc.  So you either need to dispense with such checks or make them harder occasionally to give the rogues and scouts and sage types something to do out of combat.</blockquote>

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