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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ValhallaGH" data-source="post: 2951091" data-attributes="member: 41187">First, I find your analysis of D&D class creation and design to be accurate and insightful.  I appreciate the sharing of your wisdom and experience; not only was it interesting but it's given me another perspective to look at D&D from.  Thank you.Second, Woops!  I seem to have been unclear.  For that I appologize.I like d20; I feel that the core concepts of it are excellent and translate well into most of the game types I look forward to playing.  I like classes and levels, they guide character design and development while still leaving plenty of room for customization and uniqueness.I have some issues with core d20, specifically D&D, with regards to the way classes are conceptualized and designed as well as the way multi-classing is handled (favored classes and experience penalties really get my goat).Because of those issues, I prefer d20 based systems other than D&D for the ways classes should be conceptualized and designed.  These other systems appeal to me because of their consistant and non-redundant classes that can easily cover a multitude of archetypes with a single class yet still allow for other classes to cover that same archetype with a completely different mechanical, and flavorful, approach.In my previous post I mentioned an anime ninja team as inspiration for an adventuring party.  I covered how complex it would be to create such a team in D&D.  In Iron Heroes I would use the 1) Executioner, 2) Berserker, 3) Arcanist and 4) Thief, and I would need no special house rules or extraneous effort despite the fact that only the Executioner was remotely designed with the ninja archetype in mind.  Alternatively I could use 1) Harrier, 2) Armiger, 3) Arcanist and 4) Man At Arms; or I could use a couple dozen other class combinations to achieve the same archetypal results.  Each team will be different because each character emphasizes different parts of the archetype but each team will still fill the four roles of that archetype.The fact that I can cover the desired archetypes with minimal fuss using pre-existing, heavily playtested, classes even though they weren't designed for my specific archetype tells me that Iron Heroes class design works better than D&D class design.The only thing in D20 Modern that slows me down is the existence of cross-class skills.  I've got houserules to fix that, but it was also one of my main complaints with D&D classes, making it an arguemental deathblow for D20M.I give D&D a lot of props.  It got me into this wonderful hobby, it introduced me to many fine people, it has entertained me for years and it has some really great ideas.  On the other hand, I think there are better ways to do many d20 things than the D&D way.  Classes, skills, grappling and magic are four big areas where I think things could be done better.  Various third party materials have fulfilled my current hopes and expectations for some of those areas.  I am still searching the works of others and my own abilities to manipulate the ruleset for those remaining areas.I'm hopeful that some of my experiences and discoveries will be as helpful to others as Vigilance's experiences and explanations have been to me.</blockquote>

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