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<blockquote data-quote="Cor Azer" data-source="post: 4563638" data-attributes="member: 870">One of the things I've always really enjoyed about games like The Legend of Zelda is that you're encouraged to return to dungeons you've already &quot;completed&quot; so you can reach new areas that were previously unexplored. The main ingredient here is that the player can see the unreachable area well before getting there. Often they'll spend a long time trying to figure out if they can access it, but eventually they'll notice a hint that shows them that they need a later item (ie, in the case of the Zelda's, perhaps you see a hookshot target, which says you need the hookshot before returning), or simply grow frustrated and leave. With luck, they'll remember to come back later, and thus find a hidden McGuffin.Note that I'm not really talking about dungeons that are just so big that the players can't really help but leave, rest in town, and come back. Rather I'm looking at the situation where while en route to defeat the evil cult, they notice a weird golden door across an uncrossable chasm. Then a few adventures later, they learn that the weird golden door is the entrance to a hidden tomb filled with riches - and now that the party can fly, they decide to go back are loot.To be fair, I'm not explicitly trying to create a situation where it's impossible to get to the &quot;unreachable&quot; area - on occasion my players are more creative than I and come up with a way to access the unaccessible, so I don't want a situation that is necessarily a simple &quot;magic barrier that says no until the DM says go&quot;. Maybe it's a wide chasm, maybe it's an ancient dwarven door with a magic riddle waiting to be solved, or maybe it's an incredibly high wall.Ideally the obstacle can be overcome with either player or character knowledge, or character abilities, but even plot items (as simple as a key, or perhaps a magic bean that grows a climbable vine) can be valid &quot;solutions&quot;.So with that in mind, do other DMs try to design dungeons to support this? How do you do so? Is it successful, or are your players like mine and often grow frustrated being unable to &quot;complete&quot; the dungeon in one go?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cor Azer, post: 4563638, member: 870"] One of the things I've always really enjoyed about games like The Legend of Zelda is that you're encouraged to return to dungeons you've already "completed" so you can reach new areas that were previously unexplored. The main ingredient here is that the player can see the unreachable area well before getting there. Often they'll spend a long time trying to figure out if they can access it, but eventually they'll notice a hint that shows them that they need a later item (ie, in the case of the Zelda's, perhaps you see a hookshot target, which says you need the hookshot before returning), or simply grow frustrated and leave. With luck, they'll remember to come back later, and thus find a hidden McGuffin. Note that I'm not really talking about dungeons that are just so big that the players can't really help but leave, rest in town, and come back. Rather I'm looking at the situation where while en route to defeat the evil cult, they notice a weird golden door across an uncrossable chasm. Then a few adventures later, they learn that the weird golden door is the entrance to a hidden tomb filled with riches - and now that the party can fly, they decide to go back are loot. To be fair, I'm not explicitly trying to create a situation where it's impossible to get to the "unreachable" area - on occasion my players are more creative than I and come up with a way to access the unaccessible, so I don't want a situation that is necessarily a simple "magic barrier that says no until the DM says go". Maybe it's a wide chasm, maybe it's an ancient dwarven door with a magic riddle waiting to be solved, or maybe it's an incredibly high wall. Ideally the obstacle can be overcome with either player or character knowledge, or character abilities, but even plot items (as simple as a key, or perhaps a magic bean that grows a climbable vine) can be valid "solutions". So with that in mind, do other DMs try to design dungeons to support this? How do you do so? Is it successful, or are your players like mine and often grow frustrated being unable to "complete" the dungeon in one go? [/QUOTE]

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