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Designing holistic versus gamist magic systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="VelvetViolet" data-source="post: 7638542" data-attributes="member: 6686357"><p>The <em>Net Wizard's Handbook</em> classifies magic along two axes: control and frequency. <a href="https://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?660547-Science-in-D-amp-D&p=7636737#post7636737" target="_blank">I've attached it for reference since it is a world building aid</a>. Anyway, a lot of the arguments here seem to be focusing on control and frequency. I prefer to focus on the aesthetic of the magic. The arguments offered by the "breaking out..." article may apply to several points on the control and frequency axes, so I would prefer to avoid confusing them. (On a possibly related note, I found an article series called "<a href="https://mystorydoctor.com/tag/magic-systems/" target="_blank">building better magic systems</a>" that might be useful here too.)</p><p></p><p>To address the article points with some examples in gaming, in very brief:</p><p></p><p>I haven't seen #1 addressed much, if at all. Again, this sort of thing could easily become unwieldy so I can easily understand why. Free form magic systems like <em>Mage </em>get close, but in that case it's probably more to do with the basic rules including modifiers for all sorts of environment variables. Some editions of D&D had other planes affecting the usability of magic based on descriptors, but this wasn't applied elsewhere. <em>Warhammer 40,000</em> has its "machine spirits" (animism applied to technology) that cause all sorts of problems if not properly cared for (and figuring out the proper care involves a lot of trial and error).</p><p></p><p>#2 is probably the one that I'm most focused on, since it's probably the single most pervasive assumption in magic systems I've seen and popular media about magicians like <em>Once Upon A Time</em> and <em>The Magicians</em> (where the loss of magic is a recurring plot point). I've seen #2 addressed, at least conceptually if not in practice, by the RPG <em>Nephilim. </em>The rulebook literally states "science is a lie" and explains that the world runs on elemental magical fields. When the characters perform "magic," it is actually the applied knowledge of manipulating the universe. Hence, they call it "occult science" instead because it is a science and the real science that reality runs on. Even a kind of antimagic is provided in the form of the toxic element of orichalcum. This method, explaining the real physical laws from first principles, could be used for fantasy fiction in general.</p><p></p><p>Take the technobabble in scifi. Although it is essentially magic and extremely contrived magic too, it isn't separate from the natural world. I'd like to use that as a basis for a magic system, except dressed up as what we the audience imagine as magic rather than super-science. For example, when Doctor Crusher is healing injuries with her magic technology, it is implied that her tech builds on our accumulated centuries of medical knowledge rather than being a magic black box that heals injuries just because as in typical fantasy. This is important from a world building perspective because if, say, magical and mundane healing operated on completely separate paradigms then you would get issues like <em>Chronicles of Everfall</em> highlighting that a dependence on magical healing means that mundane healing is far less advanced compared to other disciplines of the time.</p><p></p><p>I've seen #3 addressed somewhat in the RPG <em>Mythras</em>, which includes a "folk magic" system to emulate the sort of magic performed by laypeople in myth, fairytale and other pre-modern stories. Such as tarot cards, praying to hearth spirits, the evil eye, etc. As said by others, it's already present to a degree whenever a game includes environmental magical events that occur outside the PCs control because of GM fiat. This assumption really fascinates me, because even in modern times many people still believe in paranormal phenomena and perform religious rituals (which don't follow D&D logic). How does the connection to magic escape most authors?</p><p></p><p>#4 is mostly a problem with D&D-esque games. Placing limitations on magic is useful to keep players from spamming it all the time or otherwise breaking the game, so I can excuse that. Magic coming with a price, like everything else in life, is a really useful and thematic storytelling tool. Where this becomes a problem is, as the article attests, when it's used as a crutch to address the martial/caster disparity. I've this addressed in alternate magic/martial systems like <em>Path of War</em> and <em>Spheres of Power</em>, which aim to rebalance martials and casters to play well together. On the other hand, you could boost martials by giving them the ability to channel <em>ki </em>a la East Asian fantasy.</p><p></p><p>#5 is addressed quite commonly in the form of things like alignment or bonuses for sympathy/contagion. In fact, there's no shortage of books written specifically to provide advice for adjudicating morality and in more detail than simplistic alignment. But, as the article attests, there are often flaws in such implementations like temptations not being tempting or complex moral issues being oversimplified. I don't think this could be governed well by rules (given how complicated morality is in real life) and would need to be judged by the GM in every case.</p><p></p><p>I don't think I've yet found a magic system that addresses all of these points simultaneously, but I might just not know enough. However, these do interest me from a writing perspective. Even if I can't find an easy way to apply them in a gaming context, they might be useful for writing fantasy fiction that feels fresh and original. What do you think?</p><p></p><p>EDIT: The BRP supplement <em>Enlightened Magic</em> includes sorcery and alchemy rules based on real world occultism. Real world occultism and obsolete scientific theories might be a useful topic to research when developing magic systems.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VelvetViolet, post: 7638542, member: 6686357"] The [I]Net Wizard's Handbook[/I] classifies magic along two axes: control and frequency. [URL="https://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?660547-Science-in-D-amp-D&p=7636737#post7636737"]I've attached it for reference since it is a world building aid[/URL]. Anyway, a lot of the arguments here seem to be focusing on control and frequency. I prefer to focus on the aesthetic of the magic. The arguments offered by the "breaking out..." article may apply to several points on the control and frequency axes, so I would prefer to avoid confusing them. (On a possibly related note, I found an article series called "[URL="https://mystorydoctor.com/tag/magic-systems/"]building better magic systems[/URL]" that might be useful here too.) To address the article points with some examples in gaming, in very brief: I haven't seen #1 addressed much, if at all. Again, this sort of thing could easily become unwieldy so I can easily understand why. Free form magic systems like [I]Mage [/I]get close, but in that case it's probably more to do with the basic rules including modifiers for all sorts of environment variables. Some editions of D&D had other planes affecting the usability of magic based on descriptors, but this wasn't applied elsewhere. [I]Warhammer 40,000[/I] has its "machine spirits" (animism applied to technology) that cause all sorts of problems if not properly cared for (and figuring out the proper care involves a lot of trial and error). #2 is probably the one that I'm most focused on, since it's probably the single most pervasive assumption in magic systems I've seen and popular media about magicians like [I]Once Upon A Time[/I] and [I]The Magicians[/I] (where the loss of magic is a recurring plot point). I've seen #2 addressed, at least conceptually if not in practice, by the RPG [I]Nephilim. [/I]The rulebook literally states "science is a lie" and explains that the world runs on elemental magical fields. When the characters perform "magic," it is actually the applied knowledge of manipulating the universe. Hence, they call it "occult science" instead because it is a science and the real science that reality runs on. Even a kind of antimagic is provided in the form of the toxic element of orichalcum. This method, explaining the real physical laws from first principles, could be used for fantasy fiction in general. Take the technobabble in scifi. Although it is essentially magic and extremely contrived magic too, it isn't separate from the natural world. I'd like to use that as a basis for a magic system, except dressed up as what we the audience imagine as magic rather than super-science. For example, when Doctor Crusher is healing injuries with her magic technology, it is implied that her tech builds on our accumulated centuries of medical knowledge rather than being a magic black box that heals injuries just because as in typical fantasy. This is important from a world building perspective because if, say, magical and mundane healing operated on completely separate paradigms then you would get issues like [I]Chronicles of Everfall[/I] highlighting that a dependence on magical healing means that mundane healing is far less advanced compared to other disciplines of the time. I've seen #3 addressed somewhat in the RPG [I]Mythras[/I], which includes a "folk magic" system to emulate the sort of magic performed by laypeople in myth, fairytale and other pre-modern stories. Such as tarot cards, praying to hearth spirits, the evil eye, etc. As said by others, it's already present to a degree whenever a game includes environmental magical events that occur outside the PCs control because of GM fiat. This assumption really fascinates me, because even in modern times many people still believe in paranormal phenomena and perform religious rituals (which don't follow D&D logic). How does the connection to magic escape most authors? #4 is mostly a problem with D&D-esque games. Placing limitations on magic is useful to keep players from spamming it all the time or otherwise breaking the game, so I can excuse that. Magic coming with a price, like everything else in life, is a really useful and thematic storytelling tool. Where this becomes a problem is, as the article attests, when it's used as a crutch to address the martial/caster disparity. I've this addressed in alternate magic/martial systems like [I]Path of War[/I] and [I]Spheres of Power[/I], which aim to rebalance martials and casters to play well together. On the other hand, you could boost martials by giving them the ability to channel [I]ki [/I]a la East Asian fantasy. #5 is addressed quite commonly in the form of things like alignment or bonuses for sympathy/contagion. In fact, there's no shortage of books written specifically to provide advice for adjudicating morality and in more detail than simplistic alignment. But, as the article attests, there are often flaws in such implementations like temptations not being tempting or complex moral issues being oversimplified. I don't think this could be governed well by rules (given how complicated morality is in real life) and would need to be judged by the GM in every case. I don't think I've yet found a magic system that addresses all of these points simultaneously, but I might just not know enough. However, these do interest me from a writing perspective. Even if I can't find an easy way to apply them in a gaming context, they might be useful for writing fantasy fiction that feels fresh and original. What do you think? EDIT: The BRP supplement [I]Enlightened Magic[/I] includes sorcery and alchemy rules based on real world occultism. Real world occultism and obsolete scientific theories might be a useful topic to research when developing magic systems. [/QUOTE]
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