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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Designing new caster base classes for unfilled niches?
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<blockquote data-quote="VelvetViolet" data-source="post: 6414295" data-attributes="member: 6686357"><p>While comparing the different spellcasting classes, I noticed that there was an uneven distribution of classes based on spell lists and primary abilities. Intelligence- and Wisdom-based casters always prepare their spells (from spellbooks/familiars and meditation, respectively) and Charisma-based casters always cast spontaneously. As far as I've been able to find, there is no divine equivalent to the Wizard that draws on the divine spell lists (e.g. the archivist from <em>Heroes of Horror</em>), no spontaneous counterpart to the druid, and there is no Wisdom-based arcane caster. (Not including partial caster classes without full spell progression.)</p><p></p><p>[TABLE="width: 0"] [TR] [TD]<strong>Spells</strong></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<strong>Intelligence</strong></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<strong>Wisdom</strong></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<strong>Charisma</strong></p><p>[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]<em>Cleric</em></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sage¹</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Cleric</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Oracle</p><p>[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]<em>Druid</em></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]???</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Druid</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/shaman" target="_blank">Shaman</a>²</p><p>[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]<em>Witch</em></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Witch</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sèvitè³</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Arcanist⁴</p><p>[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]<em>Wizard</em></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Wizard</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Spellweaver⁵</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sorcerer</p><p>[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]<em>Any</em></p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/theurge" target="_blank">Theurge</a>²⁶</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/magister" target="_blank">Magister</a>⁷</p><p>[/TD] [TD="align: center"]<a href="http://hastur.net/wiki/Blood_Mystic_(Apath)" target="_blank">Mystic</a>⁸</p><p>[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] ¹ Archetype from <em>Priest Base Class</em> (3pp)</p><p>² Base class from <em>New Paths Compendium</em> (3pp)</p><p>³ Base class from <em>Into The Breach: The Witch</em> (3pp)</p><p>⁴ Unlettered Arcanist (Archetype) with the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/super-genius-games/general-feats/spell-finesse" target="_blank">Spell Finesse</a> (Charisma) feat to remove MAD (3pp)</p><p>⁵ Base class from <em>The Spellweaver</em> (3pp); using the Weave of Will feat</p><p>⁶ Using the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/super-genius-games/general-feats/spell-finesse" target="_blank">Spell Finesse</a> (Intelligence) feat to remove MAD (3pp)</p><p>⁷ Base class from <em>Genius Guide to the Magister</em> (3pp); using the <a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/super-genius-games/general-feats/spell-finesse" target="_blank">Spell Finesse</a> (Wisdom) feat to remove MAD (3pp)</p><p>⁸ Base class from <em>Prestige Archetype: Blood Mystic</em> (3pp)</p><p></p><p>If I was trying to design base classes that filled niches like "divine wizard" or "wisdom arcane caster," what do you think would be appropriate class features?</p><p></p><p>The concept of the divine wizard is simple: he relies on Intelligence and spellbooks (prayerbooks) like a Wizard, but casts divine spells and can learn from <em>any </em>divine class' spell list (not just the cleric's) assuming he can find an appropriate scroll or something. It can work out as a simple wizard archetype, <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?357757-An-intelligence-based-divine-caster-PEACH&p=6351222#post6351222" target="_blank">like the one I wrote up here</a>. Is the wizard's class features appropriate or should the class benefit from something else?</p><p></p><p>Aside from changing up the Witch class to rely on Wisdom (e.g. <a href="http://www.necromancers-online.com/articles/BestinClass/2013/20130128.html" target="_blank">Goblin Witch (Archetype)</a> from 3pp; if not goblinoid, using the "<a href="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/racial-heritage" target="_blank">racial heritage</a> (goblinoid)" feat to qualify), a Wisdom-based arcane caster could be pretty unique. Taking cues from the <a href="http://www.purpleduckgames.com/chaos-mage" target="_blank">Chaos Mage</a> and the D&D Wild Mage, perhaps such as class would automatically know the spells on every arcane class' spell list and could cast them spontaneously, but at the cost of often provoking wild surges and other uncontrollable chaotic effects. The use of Wisdom would symbolize warping reality through sheer force of will, rather than drawing on internal or external magical power. EDIT: The Spellweaver base class seems to address these points rather well and can rely on Wisdom with a feat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="VelvetViolet, post: 6414295, member: 6686357"] While comparing the different spellcasting classes, I noticed that there was an uneven distribution of classes based on spell lists and primary abilities. Intelligence- and Wisdom-based casters always prepare their spells (from spellbooks/familiars and meditation, respectively) and Charisma-based casters always cast spontaneously. As far as I've been able to find, there is no divine equivalent to the Wizard that draws on the divine spell lists (e.g. the archivist from [I]Heroes of Horror[/I]), no spontaneous counterpart to the druid, and there is no Wisdom-based arcane caster. (Not including partial caster classes without full spell progression.) [TABLE="width: 0"] [TR] [TD][B]Spells[/B] [/TD] [TD="align: center"][B]Intelligence[/B] [/TD] [TD="align: center"][B]Wisdom[/B] [/TD] [TD="align: center"][B]Charisma[/B] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][I]Cleric[/I] [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sage¹ [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Cleric [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Oracle [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][I]Druid[/I] [/TD] [TD="align: center"]??? [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Druid [/TD] [TD="align: center"][URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/shaman"]Shaman[/URL]² [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][I]Witch[/I] [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Witch [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sèvitè³ [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Arcanist⁴ [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][I]Wizard[/I] [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Wizard [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Spellweaver⁵ [/TD] [TD="align: center"]Sorcerer [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][I]Any[/I] [/TD] [TD="align: center"][URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/theurge"]Theurge[/URL]²⁶ [/TD] [TD="align: center"][URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/magister"]Magister[/URL]⁷ [/TD] [TD="align: center"][URL="http://hastur.net/wiki/Blood_Mystic_(Apath)"]Mystic[/URL]⁸ [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] ¹ Archetype from [I]Priest Base Class[/I] (3pp) ² Base class from [I]New Paths Compendium[/I] (3pp) ³ Base class from [I]Into The Breach: The Witch[/I] (3pp) ⁴ Unlettered Arcanist (Archetype) with the [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/super-genius-games/general-feats/spell-finesse"]Spell Finesse[/URL] (Charisma) feat to remove MAD (3pp) ⁵ Base class from [I]The Spellweaver[/I] (3pp); using the Weave of Will feat ⁶ Using the [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/super-genius-games/general-feats/spell-finesse"]Spell Finesse[/URL] (Intelligence) feat to remove MAD (3pp) ⁷ Base class from [I]Genius Guide to the Magister[/I] (3pp); using the [URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/3rd-party-feats/super-genius-games/general-feats/spell-finesse"]Spell Finesse[/URL] (Wisdom) feat to remove MAD (3pp) ⁸ Base class from [I]Prestige Archetype: Blood Mystic[/I] (3pp) If I was trying to design base classes that filled niches like "divine wizard" or "wisdom arcane caster," what do you think would be appropriate class features? The concept of the divine wizard is simple: he relies on Intelligence and spellbooks (prayerbooks) like a Wizard, but casts divine spells and can learn from [I]any [/I]divine class' spell list (not just the cleric's) assuming he can find an appropriate scroll or something. It can work out as a simple wizard archetype, [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?357757-An-intelligence-based-divine-caster-PEACH&p=6351222#post6351222"]like the one I wrote up here[/URL]. Is the wizard's class features appropriate or should the class benefit from something else? Aside from changing up the Witch class to rely on Wisdom (e.g. [URL="http://www.necromancers-online.com/articles/BestinClass/2013/20130128.html"]Goblin Witch (Archetype)[/URL] from 3pp; if not goblinoid, using the "[URL="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/racial-heritage"]racial heritage[/URL] (goblinoid)" feat to qualify), a Wisdom-based arcane caster could be pretty unique. Taking cues from the [URL="http://www.purpleduckgames.com/chaos-mage"]Chaos Mage[/URL] and the D&D Wild Mage, perhaps such as class would automatically know the spells on every arcane class' spell list and could cast them spontaneously, but at the cost of often provoking wild surges and other uncontrollable chaotic effects. The use of Wisdom would symbolize warping reality through sheer force of will, rather than drawing on internal or external magical power. EDIT: The Spellweaver base class seems to address these points rather well and can rely on Wisdom with a feat. [/QUOTE]
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