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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6626677" data-attributes="member: 92511">And, again, I will simply disagree with pretty much all of this. It is &quot;in your view&quot; and &quot;from your experience&quot; and using your definitions, coined terms, and expectations of what &quot;good&quot; players and &quot;good&quot; DMs do. And basically, your default position is saying, &quot;tell the players everything they need to know and just lay out/give them what they want/need to &quot;win&quot; because that will be, to them, a satisfying experience.&quot;That is so very far from my concept and experiences of what &quot;satisfying&quot; D&amp;D is...on either side of the screen. If you play, as you claim, with experienced players and gave them that &quot;guarded by demons of rock&quot; line, and they didn't look at each other sidelong and say &quot;Gargoyles&quot; in a matter-of-fact tone, then I would be very surprised. If you gave them that and then said they're walking up on some statues (forget even having to describe the statues, just the word &quot;statue&quot;) and they didn't off load everything they had into that room, or enter on high alert with no chance for a surprise round, then they're just not paying attention.Tell me, where in there are the 'meaningful choices&quot; being made to shape the situation/game/world? You laid it out for me that there would be gargoyles (via your expert &quot;telegraphing&quot;). Then there were gargoyles. We fought them and won. Boy howdy, do I feel &quot;satisfied.&quot; That was some tense game play right there.We'll just agree to disagree on this. But thanks for the links.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 6626677, member: 92511"] And, again, I will simply disagree with pretty much all of this. It is "in your view" and "from your experience" and using your definitions, coined terms, and expectations of what "good" players and "good" DMs do. And basically, your default position is saying, "tell the players everything they need to know and just lay out/give them what they want/need to "win" because that will be, to them, a satisfying experience." That is so very far from my concept and experiences of what "satisfying" D&D is...on either side of the screen. If you play, as you claim, with experienced players and gave them that "guarded by demons of rock" line, and they didn't look at each other sidelong and say "Gargoyles" in a matter-of-fact tone, then I would be very surprised. If you gave them that and then said they're walking up on some statues (forget even having to describe the statues, just the word "statue") and they didn't off load everything they had into that room, or enter on high alert with no chance for a surprise round, then they're just not paying attention. Tell me, where in there are the 'meaningful choices" being made to shape the situation/game/world? You laid it out for me that there would be gargoyles (via your expert "telegraphing"). Then there were gargoyles. We fought them and won. Boy howdy, do I feel "satisfied." That was some tense game play right there. We'll just agree to disagree on this. But thanks for the links. [/QUOTE]

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