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<blockquote data-quote="jelmore" data-source="post: 4225393" data-attributes="member: 56412">Yes, but that presumes you can take 20 on Knowledge checks, which I know 3rd Edition did not let you do. (&quot;The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn’t let you know something that you never learned in the first place.&quot;)3rd Edition let you make untrained Knowledge checks, but the PC couldn't succeed on anything with a DC higher than 10. Which would rule out ID'ing magic items entirely.If we assume the Arcana skill allows for untrained use for IDing items in 4th Edition, then you're looking at (level / 2) + Int mod, which for a 1st-level Fighter with an Intelligence of 18 means he gets +4. If the DM lets you take 10 on the check, then the fighter can reliably identify level 4 or lower items. That doesn't seem out of whack. (Being trained would let you ID 9th level items for a fighter with Int 18, but that means blowing a feat on Skill Training or Arcane Initiate; I assume that Fighters don't get Arcana as a class skill.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jelmore, post: 4225393, member: 56412"] Yes, but that presumes you can take 20 on Knowledge checks, which I know 3rd Edition did [i]not[/i] let you do. ("The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn’t let you know something that you never learned in the first place.") 3rd Edition let you make untrained Knowledge checks, but the PC couldn't succeed on anything with a DC higher than 10. Which would rule out ID'ing magic items entirely. If we assume the Arcana skill allows for untrained use for IDing items in 4th Edition, then you're looking at (level / 2) + Int mod, which for a 1st-level Fighter with an Intelligence of 18 means he gets +4. If the DM lets you take 10 on the check, then the fighter can reliably identify level 4 or lower items. That doesn't seem out of whack. (Being trained would let you ID 9th level items for a fighter with Int 18, but that means blowing a feat on Skill Training or Arcane Initiate; I assume that Fighters don't get Arcana as a class skill.) [/QUOTE]

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