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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7552003" data-attributes="member: 7006">If you are a DM who actually gives different &quot;surface thoughts&quot; each round, then sure, I can understand your POV.For me though, as I said above... I don't run surface thoughts that way.&nbsp; Surface thoughts do not change round to round.&nbsp; They have an overriding attitude and that's what gets detected when you aren't letting the person know you are doing it or letting them make a saving throw to defend against it.That's the big thing for me.&nbsp; If you are trying to avoid being detected and the person has no defense against your detection... you're just not going to get very much detail.Remember, there is already another 2nd level spell called 'Zone of Truth' which does what it appears as though folks are wanting 'Detect Thoughts' to do when running an interrogation scene-- determine whether the person is telling the truth.&nbsp; From what I'm gathering, the idea they are hoping for is that during the interrogation scene and by scanning surface thoughts round after round, they'd get pings like &quot;That question made the person nervous!&nbsp; They know something!&quot; Or &quot;That person walled themselves off when they answered that question... they're probably lying.&quot;If that is what you are trying to do with Detect Thoughts... use it as a lie detector test... then I absolutely believe you should HAVE to &quot;probe deeper&quot;.&nbsp; The person not only needs to know you are probing inside their mind to get information, but that they should have a chance to center themselves and not let you do it (via a saving throw).&nbsp; After all... 'Zone of Truth' is already our lie detector spell, and that one not only requires a saving throw for it to even work at all, but the person under its influence is under no obligation to actually talk to you (when if they did, they would have to tell the truth.)To use the surface level 'Detect Thoughts' to figure out if someone is lying where the target doesn't know you are doing it and they have no way to defend themselves... that's a big no-no for me.&nbsp; We have 'Zone of Truth' in the game already for a reason.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7552003, member: 7006"] If you are a DM who actually gives different "surface thoughts" each round, then sure, I can understand your POV. For me though, as I said above... I don't run surface thoughts that way. Surface thoughts do not change round to round. They have an overriding attitude and that's what gets detected [I]when you aren't letting the person know you are doing it or letting them make a saving throw to defend against it.[/I] That's the big thing for me. If you are trying to avoid being detected and the person has no defense against your detection... you're just not going to get very much detail. Remember, there is already another 2nd level spell called 'Zone of Truth' which does what it appears as though folks are wanting 'Detect Thoughts' to do when running an interrogation scene-- determine whether the person is telling the truth. From what I'm gathering, the idea they are hoping for is that during the interrogation scene and by scanning surface thoughts round after round, they'd get pings like "That question made the person nervous! They know something!" Or "That person walled themselves off when they answered that question... they're probably lying." If that is what you are trying to do with Detect Thoughts... use it as a lie detector test... then I absolutely believe you should HAVE to "probe deeper". The person not only needs to know you are probing inside their mind to get information, but that they should have a chance to center themselves and not let you do it (via a saving throw). After all... 'Zone of Truth' is already our lie detector spell, and that one not only requires a saving throw for it to even work at all, but the person under its influence is under no obligation to actually talk to you (when if they did, they would have to tell the truth.) To use the surface level 'Detect Thoughts' to figure out if someone is lying where the target doesn't know you are doing it [I][B]and[/B][/I] they have no way to defend themselves... that's a big no-no for me. We have 'Zone of Truth' in the game already for a reason. [/QUOTE]

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