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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N0Man" data-source="post: 4808965" data-attributes="member: 64066">I'm still a little confused about invisibility.It appears that largely invisibility and stealth are pretty close to one another, and that both allow for the targeted to be detected by the use of an active Perception roll.However, what if they are invisible due to a magic effect rather than stealth?  There was no Stealth roll, so what does the Perception roll oppose?  Typically it's the previous active stealth roll, but what about when that doesn't apply?Most monsters have an invisibility power also have stealth, however it's not universal.  Take the Aboleth Overseer for example.  It has invisibility, but no stealth.Is it still rolled against stealth, but in this case, using the Aboleth's base Dex bonus value in place of untrained stealth?What DC do you use to spot an invisible target that doesn't use stealth?</blockquote>