Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Developer's Roundtable: Mystic Theurge
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Najo" data-source="post: 826873" data-attributes="member: 9959"><p><strong>Clarifyiing</strong></p><p></p><p>When I say band-aid, I am using the term that I have seen commonly used in this discussion, meaning that you are covering up the wound instead of healing it. It basically means they are not removing the problem.</p><p></p><p>The Mystic Theurge in concept is truly an interesting idea and I personally like the pushing of the rules into new places (like they do with cards games such as Magic). But its execution is flawed. This class doesn't allow other divine/ arcane caster combinations, so it doesn't solve the problem it sets out to and it favors certain combinations over by the way it removes class abilities from those classes. So you are not truly mutliclassing your caster classes.</p><p></p><p>A much better solution is to allow caster levels from all the casters to stack when multi classed for everything except spells per day.</p><p></p><p>If done this way you end up with characters like such:</p><p></p><p>10 fighter/10 wizard (caster level 10)</p><p>10 wiz/10 clr (CL 20)</p><p>10 brd/5 wiz/ 5 fighter (CL 15)</p><p>10pal/10 clr (CL 15)</p><p></p><p>All of these classes end up having spells per day limited by their actual class level, their casting power (affecting max spell effects, dispel and counter rolls and spell resistance) are not affected. Fighter mages are about equal in power to a paladin or ranger, but cleric/ mages are still CL 20 with a wide assortment of lower level spells (much like the mystic theurge concept). </p><p></p><p>What I like about this system is separates your casting power from spells you know. It also is more backwards compatible then the mystic theurge prestige class. </p><p></p><p>In fact the only part of the rulebook they would have to change is a small blurb in the mutli-classing rules section where it explains how to stack BAB, saves and other class abilities. Caster level should stack. Your devotion to a magic type is represented by the spells you have access to, which would not change.</p><p></p><p>What I am surprised by is that the mystic theurge obviously breaks previous material (especially prestige classes). Before these debates everyone was worried about whether or not the D&D 3.5 rules would work with their books they own as WOTC is claiming they do. Now people are worried about whether or not the Mystic Theurge is broken. Well the mystic theurge makes D&D 3.5 NOT compatible with 3.0, that is something to consider when wondering if it is broken. It changes how you value mutli-classing and caster level completely. It says that a wizard sacrificing 2 feats and familiar abilities are equal to 10 cleric caster levels. It also says that a cleric BAB, saves and turning ability are equal to 10 wizard levels. </p><p></p><p>I am sorry, that is wrong.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Najo, post: 826873, member: 9959"] [b]Clarifyiing[/b] When I say band-aid, I am using the term that I have seen commonly used in this discussion, meaning that you are covering up the wound instead of healing it. It basically means they are not removing the problem. The Mystic Theurge in concept is truly an interesting idea and I personally like the pushing of the rules into new places (like they do with cards games such as Magic). But its execution is flawed. This class doesn't allow other divine/ arcane caster combinations, so it doesn't solve the problem it sets out to and it favors certain combinations over by the way it removes class abilities from those classes. So you are not truly mutliclassing your caster classes. A much better solution is to allow caster levels from all the casters to stack when multi classed for everything except spells per day. If done this way you end up with characters like such: 10 fighter/10 wizard (caster level 10) 10 wiz/10 clr (CL 20) 10 brd/5 wiz/ 5 fighter (CL 15) 10pal/10 clr (CL 15) All of these classes end up having spells per day limited by their actual class level, their casting power (affecting max spell effects, dispel and counter rolls and spell resistance) are not affected. Fighter mages are about equal in power to a paladin or ranger, but cleric/ mages are still CL 20 with a wide assortment of lower level spells (much like the mystic theurge concept). What I like about this system is separates your casting power from spells you know. It also is more backwards compatible then the mystic theurge prestige class. In fact the only part of the rulebook they would have to change is a small blurb in the mutli-classing rules section where it explains how to stack BAB, saves and other class abilities. Caster level should stack. Your devotion to a magic type is represented by the spells you have access to, which would not change. What I am surprised by is that the mystic theurge obviously breaks previous material (especially prestige classes). Before these debates everyone was worried about whether or not the D&D 3.5 rules would work with their books they own as WOTC is claiming they do. Now people are worried about whether or not the Mystic Theurge is broken. Well the mystic theurge makes D&D 3.5 NOT compatible with 3.0, that is something to consider when wondering if it is broken. It changes how you value mutli-classing and caster level completely. It says that a wizard sacrificing 2 feats and familiar abilities are equal to 10 cleric caster levels. It also says that a cleric BAB, saves and turning ability are equal to 10 wizard levels. I am sorry, that is wrong. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Developer's Roundtable: Mystic Theurge
Top