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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HeapThaumaturgist" data-source="post: 2794252" data-attributes="member: 12332">I'll start with Black Binding, since that's pretty simple.I wanted Black Binding to have some of that "Old Magic" styling.To that end, it is very much permanent.  But -anything- on the outside can affect them, even an as-yet untrapped fiend.  Say there's a fiend we want to trap.  He's a CR 1 Winged Imp, a small creature, so we craft a pretty standard Black Binding on a 5' square (his facing) using a package of table salt we found in the kitchen.  This would take a full round action, and the Diabolist would need to have access to all 8 squares surrounding that 5' square in order to scribe.Here's the thing, though.  If that Black Binding is completed, the fiend won't be able to pass into OR out of it, though from the outside he could disturb the diagram.  This, honestly, was a balance decision on my part.  Black Binding is one of the most useful Diabolism spells for heroes, and if you're making a campaign based around demon hunters and demons, it would be a "Must Have" if you could set up Bindings that a fiend couldn't see, but could be trapped by, without the heroes neccesarily even being in the same state.  You could, for instance, set up the most powerful Black Binding possible in your bedroom, then go on vacation and come back to find you've got a Blade Fiend trapped in there and at your mercy.Same with making a diagram that the caster can stand in that the fiend cannot penetrate.  In fiend-heavy games, suddenly everybody wants ranks in Black Binding (and a level of Dedicated for Skill Emphasis, to boot).  Since there's no duration, you could scribe a diagram around yourself and hang out until you were healed up and ready to rock, or the fiend got bored and left.  (That was the first thing somebody wanted to do, actually:  Bind himself and then hit the fiend with Wrack until it stuck.)The idea that the magic is contained within the diagram itself also extends to seeing the diagram.  The diagram has to be unobstructed to function.  So, say, you put a 10' rug over a 5' diagram.  That diagram wouldn't function.  If the diagram were made of salt or chalk, I'd even rule that putting the rug over the diagram would ruin it.  Now, if you made that diagram out of inlaid cherry as part of the hardwood floor, you could definately put a rug over it and pull the rug off and leave the diagram undisturbed.  If something is lying across the diagram in such a way as to break any line (or all lines) it is ruined. EDIT:  One thing I thought of adding, but never did.  Key Stones.  A way of doing this is allowing a binding diagram to be set up "beforehand" but one aspect left unfinished.  Finishing the diagram takes at least a Full Round Action, and the skill check isn't made until that finisher.  This allows for situations where you have a strong pre-prepared diagram that you unfurl at the last moment, but the magic has to be completed to function (so the Diabolist has to have his pants in the wind, so to speak, and provoke AoOs and possible disruption to finish).  Take that inlaid cherry diagram ... perhaps you keep a rug over it and there's a small wooden keystone missing that you can slide in place and invoke the spell after you whip aside the rug.We wanted Black Binding to be useful, but dangerous.  You can bind a fiend, but you have to find a way to keep him busy while you draw the diagram.  Here's something I wanted to add.  I strongly encourage GMs to check out the "Creature Weaknesses" section of the d20Modern book/SRD.  The rules are there in the book, but I should have pointed out how those rules would interact with something like Black Binding.  Researching creatures is already part and parcel of Diabolism, and a smart demon hunter knows his foe.  If the GM decides to add a particular Weakness to a demon, that gives the heroes something to do to keep it busy while they scribe.Say our GM has decided that Winged Imps have an obsession with Mirrors.  If they see themselves in a mirror, it functions as a Moderate Fascination weakness.  We've got our salt, a pocket mirror, and a spare bedroom ... time to set a trap!  Let's say our heroes are Bob and Larry James:  Demon Hunters.  Bob is the muscle, Larry is the Diabolist.  Both of them Hide in the spare bedroom, and Bob readies an action to present the mirror when the Winged Imp enters the room and reaches the center.  Eventually, by making a little noise perhaps, the pair are able to draw the imp to the room.  It enters, fails its spot checks, and decides to investigate (being a bit of a thickie).  When it gets near the center of the room, Bob springs out and presents the mirror.  The imp sees itself and fails its Will save (DC 15).  It is fascinated.  Larry jumps out and uses the time to make a quick and dirty Black Binding around the imp (DC 15, -4 penalty for speed).  We'll assume that Larry is pretty good, so he succeeds.  Now Bob can remove the mirror and the pair has a captured imp ...So your impression was my impression (and experience).  A permanent protective ward would lead to situations that would make, essentially, fiends an utterly useless foe.  The heroes would always have a house totally warded, or they'd ward their car when they got out, or ward the first room they cleared in a demon hunt and use it to fall back to if they got in trouble.  I think a ward is a good idea, in that alot of people will ask for it ... but here's my thoughts.One, I've got a ward coming up in another SFX Skills product.  It works differently, and not as "absolutely", allowing saves and such so that fiends aren't just stopped cold.  Two, in playtest, I hadn't found a way to do it that didn't make for a be-all, end-all fiend-fighting tactic.  Remember that we've got Wrack to work with as well, which can really turn the tide in a fight.  Using Diabolism as fire for fighting fires should have an aura of danger and horrible cost to it.  Even with the best of intentions, it's DARK magic.  Bad mojo.  I had contemplated such a ward as a Rank-Based Benefit, but never did quite get it "right" so I never even put it in the manuscript.Hope that helps without causing even more questions.--fje</blockquote>

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