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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 4105674" data-attributes="member: 29014">Okay, I asked someone who knows topology, and he says:A hyperbolic surface is insufficient.  You actually need a Minkowski space to break the triangle inequality (and whatever way you slice it, 4e does break the triangle inequality).  Minkowski spaces exist in relativity--they're the 4D space implied by general relativity, so now 4E is using 4D geometry.  The only issue is that in order for 4e to work with a Minkowski space, you have to be time traveling.Since this is starting to break my brain, hopefully we can all agree that the hack required to actually make 4e geometry work perfectly is too complicated for anyone to use, especially compared to 1-2-1-2-1.  However, for those willing to ignore the edge cases who have issues with 1-2-1-2-1 for counting or speed reasons, I can definitely see where 1-1-1-1 can help.</blockquote>