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<blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1568524" data-attributes="member: 10201">Or change who wins ties. One point of assymetricality comes from the fact that the average for d20 is 10.5, not 10, while the other point comes from the tie rules.&nbsp; (IIRC, make it &quot;die-roller loses ties&quot; rather than &quot;defender wins ties&quot;, and it's all fixed. And, IMHO, it's a more symmetrical/consistent solution than the +12 solution.) In any case, i think it's kinda silly to worry about one point, even a consistent point, when you're rolling a d20 (wide, flat randomizer). I've used essentially this variant for years, 'cept i just add 10 all-round. Fine, so the players get a point or two of advantage (usually) or disadvantage. So what? It's less than the modifier for any miscellaneous minor circumstance, or the difference between a strong and really strong person, or one who has put lots of points into a skill and one who has only put some points in, or any number of other variables. If you want a bell curve, there's a much better way to do it. It's called mid20: roll three d20s, toss the highest and lowest, and use the remaining one for your result. No addition, you get the full range from 1 to 20, and the curve is smoother than 2d10 and less extremely center-weighted than 3d6. And you can pretty much just toss it into the system without any further changes--though keep in mind that crits will of course get rarer (but no where near as much rarer as 3d6, which is why you can probably get away with not changing the threat ranges). You'll probably want to use a regular d20 for confirming threats, or crits will get *really* rare. We've also explored some interesting variations you can do with the dice to roll threat-confirmation into the basic die roll, and even give multiple degrees of success right in the die roll, but then it actually starts to make the probabilities very much different, and you would have to take them into consideration a bit more.Oh, some probabilities, for those who're wondering:[code]value&nbsp; &nbsp; d20&nbsp; &nbsp; 3d6&nbsp; &nbsp; 3d6+2dF&nbsp; &nbsp; 2d10&nbsp; &nbsp; mid20&nbsp; &nbsp; mid20 ≥1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; --&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.001&nbsp; &nbsp; --&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.007&nbsp; &nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; --&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.003&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.01&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.021&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.9933&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.005&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.008&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.02&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.033&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.9724&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.014&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.017&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.03&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.043&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.9395&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.028&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.031&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.04&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.052&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.8966&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.046&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.049&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.06&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.8447&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.069&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.071&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.06&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.066&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.7848&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.097&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.093&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.07&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.07&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.7189&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.116&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.11&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.08&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.073&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.64810&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.125&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.119&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.09&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.075&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.57511&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.125&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.119&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.1&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.075&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.512&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.116&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.11&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.09&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.073&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.42513&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.097&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.093&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.08&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.07&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.35214&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.069&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.071&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.07&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.066&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.28215&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.046&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.049&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.06&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.06&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.21616&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.028&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.031&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.052&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.15617&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.014&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.017&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.04&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.043&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.10418&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.005&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.008&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.03&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.033&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.06119&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; --&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.003&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.02&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.021&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.02820&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; --&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.001&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.01&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.007&nbsp; &nbsp; 0.007[/code]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="woodelf, post: 1568524, member: 10201"] Or change who wins ties. One point of assymetricality comes from the fact that the average for d20 is 10.5, not 10, while the other point comes from the tie rules. (IIRC, make it "die-roller loses ties" rather than "defender wins ties", and it's all fixed. And, IMHO, it's a more symmetrical/consistent solution than the +12 solution.) In any case, i think it's kinda silly to worry about one point, even a consistent point, when you're rolling a d20 (wide, flat randomizer). I've used essentially this variant for years, 'cept i just add 10 all-round. Fine, so the players get a point or two of advantage (usually) or disadvantage. So what? It's less than the modifier for any miscellaneous minor circumstance, or the difference between a strong and really strong person, or one who has put lots of points into a skill and one who has only put some points in, or any number of other variables. If you want a bell curve, there's a much better way to do it. It's called mid20: roll three d20s, toss the highest and lowest, and use the remaining one for your result. No addition, you get the full range from 1 to 20, and the curve is smoother than 2d10 and less extremely center-weighted than 3d6. And you can pretty much just toss it into the system without any further changes--though keep in mind that crits will of course get rarer (but no where near as much rarer as 3d6, which is why you can probably get away with not changing the threat ranges). You'll probably want to use a regular d20 for confirming threats, or crits will get *really* rare. We've also explored some interesting variations you can do with the dice to roll threat-confirmation into the basic die roll, and even give multiple degrees of success right in the die roll, but then it actually starts to make the probabilities very much different, and you would have to take them into consideration a bit more. Oh, some probabilities, for those who're wondering: [code] value d20 3d6 3d6+2dF 2d10 mid20 mid20 ≥ 1 0.05 -- 0.001 -- 0.007 1 2 0.05 -- 0.003 0.01 0.021 0.993 3 0.05 0.005 0.008 0.02 0.033 0.972 4 0.05 0.014 0.017 0.03 0.043 0.939 5 0.05 0.028 0.031 0.04 0.052 0.896 6 0.05 0.046 0.049 0.05 0.06 0.844 7 0.05 0.069 0.071 0.06 0.066 0.784 8 0.05 0.097 0.093 0.07 0.07 0.718 9 0.05 0.116 0.11 0.08 0.073 0.648 10 0.05 0.125 0.119 0.09 0.075 0.575 11 0.05 0.125 0.119 0.1 0.075 0.5 12 0.05 0.116 0.11 0.09 0.073 0.425 13 0.05 0.097 0.093 0.08 0.07 0.352 14 0.05 0.069 0.071 0.07 0.066 0.282 15 0.05 0.046 0.049 0.06 0.06 0.216 16 0.05 0.028 0.031 0.05 0.052 0.156 17 0.05 0.014 0.017 0.04 0.043 0.104 18 0.05 0.005 0.008 0.03 0.033 0.061 19 0.05 -- 0.003 0.02 0.021 0.028 20 0.05 -- 0.001 0.01 0.007 0.007[/code] [/QUOTE]

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