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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Najo" data-source="post: 1393212" data-attributes="member: 9959">Well, you bring up interesting points and I would like to comment on them. So you know, I am not intending to be argumentive, just provide my own insights from my experience owning a game store for the last 8 years and working in the industry for the last 12 years.FLGS out of all of these venues you mention are the most likely to attract rpgers. Most rpgers I know play at least one other type of hobby game and many of those other game players are at least willing to try role playing (as the concept is similar in some fashion to what they are currently into), whereas the patrons of the other places you mentioned are not necessarily disposed to role playing. Actually, from everything I have heard from industry officials, more people are playing both D&D and other role playing games then ever before. From my own observations, I would guess that this is mostly true, but a very large percentage of the other rpg catagory is now playing d20 games (namely D&D).  For one, the game industry is a difficult market to survive in, and the FLGS plays an important role in gathering all types of gamers together to play with each other. The stores that are fun, professional, and carry most of the major products as well as having game play space and organized events are doing the most to help the hobby as a whole. A GW mall store only goal is to pull in new customers to play GW products, but statistics from GW and Independant Retailers show those GW outlets drive new players who stick with Warhammer and WH40k to dedicated FLGS who have events and game play space, in turn exposing those GW customers to RPGS.This isn't an attack, but I find it intersting you say in one sentence that you feel the disappearance of the FLGS wouldn't affect printed RPGS, but then go on to say that Games Plus would have to be pryed from your cold dead hands. What is it you care about from your FLGS that you can say they are not needed anymore, but then would hate to see its demise? The FLGS account for HALF of the total sales of most main stream (D&D) type books, and count for 70% of the smaller, independant publications you speak of like Riddle of Steel. Not to mention, when dealing with D&D products your speaking about 10's of thousands of printed products, wereas the next highest manufacturer (White Wolf) is lucky when they sell 10,000 copies of a book. Many of the manufacturers are on tight budgets as it is, and the small publishers hold second jobs to pay their bills. The current distribution model with wholesalers and retailers is still the most superior for small businesses who are printing and selling small quanities of a niche product. I said that for those of us who prefer printed products, we would hate to see an exclusive PDF marketplace. The majority of rpgs currently prefer using books over PDF files, which the sales demographics for PDFs prove. Where a great RPG product does 10,000, a good one 5,000, and a ok one 1,000... Most PDFs are considered highly successful when they break 500 copies.My point is that I feel FLGS do play an important role (along with the internet), in promoting RPGs as a hobby. From what I have seen, most rpgers came into the hobby before the current model of game stores existed, which is the model with large amounts of game play space and store ran events. Back in the 80's this was not common store setup, and D&D was sold mainly through toy stores, book stores, comic shops and traditional hobby shops. The game store that is ALL hobby games and has numerous tables to hold tournaments is a newer model after the event of CCGs. This is why I felt your poll UNINTENTIONALLY was flawed, as your saying you feel our industry doesn't need the FLGS and then you support your claim by polling enworlders (which is only a percentage of the market of the whole rpg hobby - and an internet savvy one at that which probably makes a higher than normal amount of their purchases online), many of us who are older than the now wide spread social game store model, begun playing rpgs with either 2nd ed AD&D or D&D and 1st ed AD&D and were introduced by friends or friends of a friend who already play. What your poll doesn't allow for is to show how FLGS are helping rpgs.As I stated above, most rpgers play at least one other non-rpg game. But, most other hobby gamers do not role play. D&D has a gross annual sales of 15m a year, where Magic: the Gathering does between 150-200m depending on the market interests at the time. Games Workshop has 170m in annual sales on average. RPGs have a much smaller market share then other hobby games, showing that most other hobby gamers could care less about rpgs. And, during the TSR bankrupcy rpgers didn't leave the hobby in droves, WOTCs own surveys show that most rpgers are commited for life (or damn near it) to their hobby. That period of time is when alternative rpgs (namely White Wolf) experienced tremendous growth. But most CCGers or Wargamers do not play rpgs, and in that you are correct...  BUT, You could say that other hobby games are helping rpgs sell by gathering the various rpg products under one roof and allowing their rpg customers the ability to browse the products. In fact, I would bet a large number of the users here DO go into game stores and look at products before buying them (whether at the establishment or online to save a few buck and not support the retailer who gave them the opportunity to see the product). Truthfully, imagine a world without game stores. Imgaine not being able to look at the products content to know if it is worth buying. This is something I feel gamers forget about from time to time, and our industry would have trouble without these showrooms where players can look at a rpg product or tryout a non-rpg game. RPGS typically are a group of friends who get together, make characters,  place them into a campaign setting of the group's or DM's choice, and then develop the character's background into the plans of the DM. Occasionally, a new friend or realtive of one of the players joins the group from time to time, or members of one group particpate in a second group with other like players.With Magic or Warhammer, non hobby people learn of the product and then go ...hmm what is this, get a demo and start playing. You also see players meet up for games through leagues, game nights and tournaments at FLGS. With RPGs you have to get a large group of 4-8 people together to play regularily once a week, with other hobby games its 30 mins - 2 hrs and then on to the next game. Even though you might not have the patience to paint and play a game like Warhammer, its annual sales show that many players do.  Look, I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I myself have been playing RPGs for over 20 years now, Warhammer for 14 years and Magic off and on since it came out about 10 years ago. I love all of these games for different reasons. Personally, Magic is the one I could live without, and role playing and Warhammer are equal for me for different reasons. All of these games enrich their players though, and I my experience has shown me that the FLGS is essentially to these games surviving. All of these games are best when people meet physically together to have fun and play, something that the internet cannot provide easily in the same way.   As for fault, this isn't really about fault. But when was the last time a role playing group invited a younger player, a complete stranger, or a total none roleplayer (all NECESSARY to the growth of the rpg hobby) and then successfully kept them in the hobby and got that person's friends playing to. CCGs and Wargames do this all the time, but RPGs because of their intimate style of play and high degree of commitment work against bringing in new players is all I was saying. I am guiltyof this to. I love playing Warhammer or Magic (and simliar games) against anyone willing to play a fun game, but a RPG I enjoy best with my close friends.In fact, if a rpg group really wanted to help the rpg industry, they need to actively recruit new players into playing with them. The most ideal canidate for this just happens to be other hobby gamers. Ironically, those gamers are gathered at least once a week at a Magic night or Warhammer league at...your FLGS.So, how important is the FLGS to the rpg hobby now? Nate <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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