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Did D&D Die with TSR?
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<blockquote data-quote="wingsandsword" data-source="post: 8054935" data-attributes="member: 14159"><p>Most of those things were present in earlier versions of D&D, just not codified or standardized. They were either optional rules, unspoken assumptions, or present in at least one prior edition of D&D.</p><p></p><p>Tactical movement on a grid had always been a part of D&D, as an optional rule or style of play. There was even a major 2e sourcebook devoted to it (Player's Option: Combat and Tactics), and the game itself emerged from tactical wargames, so the idea of playing it out as a tactical game with minis dates to the beginning. It was just more of a presumption in 3e instead of an option.</p><p></p><p>Feats existed in 2e as Non-Weapon Proficiencies. While NWP's were originally introduced into AD&D 1e as a skill system, there were a LOT of NWP's introduced in various 2e supplements that would be thought of as equivalent to a feat now, like ones that allowed fighters to make special fattacks, or would give Wizards or Clerics special abilities when casting. The feat system was part of splitting NWP's into skills that you could improve as you level, and special abilities that you had or didn't have.</p><p></p><p>Class balance was always a concept in the game, but it wasn't focused on much before 3e. That's why different classes had different XP tables, the idea that more powerful classes would need more XP to level up. It didn't work very well in the first place, and by 2000 was generally seen as incredibly outdated and archaic, hence a new approach was taken.</p><p></p><p>0 level spells existed in 1e, they were removed in 2e as an attempt to streamline the game, and put back in 3rd edition.</p><p></p><p>The 1st edition Bard was what we'd now call a Prestige Class, requiring dual-classing through several classes before adopting the Bard class well into the campaign.</p><p></p><p>You think 3e didn't have DM rulings? Did you really never see DM's have to make a ruling on things at a 3e table? I saw a LOT of really bad DM rulings at 2e tables, usually because some player came up with a torturously bad reading of the description of a spell and was trying to exploit a loophole in the wording of something. 3e tried to think ahead and prevent those unnecessary chances for bad rulings by spelling things out with a consistent system, instead of vague guidelines that turn the game from a contest of wills between DM and player. </p><p></p><p>There was already unspoken, uncodified concepts of wealth-by level. AD&D had lots of monsters that needed weapons with a specific amount of "plusses" on their weapon to even damage, and if you were high enough level to be able to fight them, the game had an unwritten assumption you'd have weapons of that power. . .but if it isn't spelled out, then the DM might not be giving you enough gear in treasure distribution to fight them effectively, or by the other token, you could be getting insane "Monty Haul" loads of treasure. It ended the nonsense of starting character in a new game at above 1st level, but only getting starting gear, because there was no rule for what a character above 1st level should get (I had this happen a LOT in 2e, where DM's would say you just get basic starting gear, even if your character is 10th or 12th level starting the campaign, because there was no rule otherwise).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wingsandsword, post: 8054935, member: 14159"] Most of those things were present in earlier versions of D&D, just not codified or standardized. They were either optional rules, unspoken assumptions, or present in at least one prior edition of D&D. Tactical movement on a grid had always been a part of D&D, as an optional rule or style of play. There was even a major 2e sourcebook devoted to it (Player's Option: Combat and Tactics), and the game itself emerged from tactical wargames, so the idea of playing it out as a tactical game with minis dates to the beginning. It was just more of a presumption in 3e instead of an option. Feats existed in 2e as Non-Weapon Proficiencies. While NWP's were originally introduced into AD&D 1e as a skill system, there were a LOT of NWP's introduced in various 2e supplements that would be thought of as equivalent to a feat now, like ones that allowed fighters to make special fattacks, or would give Wizards or Clerics special abilities when casting. The feat system was part of splitting NWP's into skills that you could improve as you level, and special abilities that you had or didn't have. Class balance was always a concept in the game, but it wasn't focused on much before 3e. That's why different classes had different XP tables, the idea that more powerful classes would need more XP to level up. It didn't work very well in the first place, and by 2000 was generally seen as incredibly outdated and archaic, hence a new approach was taken. 0 level spells existed in 1e, they were removed in 2e as an attempt to streamline the game, and put back in 3rd edition. The 1st edition Bard was what we'd now call a Prestige Class, requiring dual-classing through several classes before adopting the Bard class well into the campaign. You think 3e didn't have DM rulings? Did you really never see DM's have to make a ruling on things at a 3e table? I saw a LOT of really bad DM rulings at 2e tables, usually because some player came up with a torturously bad reading of the description of a spell and was trying to exploit a loophole in the wording of something. 3e tried to think ahead and prevent those unnecessary chances for bad rulings by spelling things out with a consistent system, instead of vague guidelines that turn the game from a contest of wills between DM and player. There was already unspoken, uncodified concepts of wealth-by level. AD&D had lots of monsters that needed weapons with a specific amount of "plusses" on their weapon to even damage, and if you were high enough level to be able to fight them, the game had an unwritten assumption you'd have weapons of that power. . .but if it isn't spelled out, then the DM might not be giving you enough gear in treasure distribution to fight them effectively, or by the other token, you could be getting insane "Monty Haul" loads of treasure. It ended the nonsense of starting character in a new game at above 1st level, but only getting starting gear, because there was no rule for what a character above 1st level should get (I had this happen a LOT in 2e, where DM's would say you just get basic starting gear, even if your character is 10th or 12th level starting the campaign, because there was no rule otherwise). [/QUOTE]
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