Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Wicht" data-source="post: 5441902" data-attributes="member: 221">Do you have an example of a 1HD monster in 3e/PFRPG with a save or die effect? If not, the argument is something of a strawman. Even if we are talking about increasing the poison lethality of a creature, doing so should increase the CR by anywhere from 1-3 depending on how lethal you make the poison.&nbsp; And I've really yet to see a 3e/PFRPG poison that is truly save or die. Most of them just make you weaker.Technically, even a medusa isn't save or die. She is save or petrify. A stone to flesh will undo this (level 6 spell). Regardless a medusa is CR 7.&nbsp; She's hardly something you would throw at a 1st level party. One other thought, a 1HD orc with a +25 to damage is really just silly. Nevertheless, a 1 HD orc does typically have what might be considered a save or die mechanic. They are armed with a greatax, which on a confirmed critical (assuming a +3 strength bonus, 14 str) will do between 12 and 45 points of damage. Enough to kill any first level character. My players have never complained about this. They in fact enjoy the lethality of the greatax. This despite the fact that the orc, with a +3 attack bonus vs an AC of 15 has something like a 1 in 40 chance of killing them dead with a single blow.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wicht, post: 5441902, member: 221"] Do you have an example of a 1HD monster in 3e/PFRPG with a save or die effect? If not, the argument is something of a strawman. Even if we are talking about increasing the poison lethality of a creature, doing so should increase the CR by anywhere from 1-3 depending on how lethal you make the poison. And I've really yet to see a 3e/PFRPG poison that is truly save or die. Most of them just make you weaker. Technically, even a medusa isn't save or die. She is save or petrify. A stone to flesh will undo this (level 6 spell). Regardless a medusa is CR 7. She's hardly something you would throw at a 1st level party. One other thought, a 1HD orc with a +25 to damage is really just silly. Nevertheless, a 1 HD orc does typically have what might be considered a save or die mechanic. They are armed with a greatax, which on a confirmed critical (assuming a +3 strength bonus, 14 str) will do between 12 and 45 points of damage. Enough to kill any first level character. My players have never complained about this. They in fact enjoy the lethality of the greatax. This despite the fact that the orc, with a +3 attack bonus vs an AC of 15 has something like a 1 in 40 chance of killing them dead with a single blow. [/QUOTE]

Verification