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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5442953" data-attributes="member: 22779">Well, I played 3e until 3.5 came out and played 3.5 until about 09, so I do have a bit of experience with the system.&nbsp; Can you point me to where I missed SSSoD in 3e?&nbsp; I don't recall ever seeing it, but, there are lots of rules in those books, so, it's possible I missed it.&nbsp; Otherwise, what's your point?--------Y'know, all this discussion about saving throws got me curious.&nbsp; So, I went back to my 3.0 Monster manual and actually reread the medusa, instead of going by the SRD.&nbsp; Funnily enough, it includes in the combat section a line that reads that a medusa will switch to its other attacks if a target &quot;survives&quot; (exact quote) her gaze attack.&nbsp; Finding that 3e says that medusa gaze attacks can be survived, I went back to my Basic book and reread the medusa and it says that if you look at a medusa, you turn to stone UNLESS you make your turn to stone save.Now, I realize I didn't look in every book, but, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that every single D&amp;D monster manual includes something similar.&nbsp; In other words, in no edition of D&amp;D does a medusa actually work the way BryonD says that it does.&nbsp; In EVERY single case, you can resist the gaze attack.The only difference is that in 4e, the onset time is changed from one round to three and instead of about a 50/50 chance of failure, you have about an 85% chance of success.&nbsp; But, narratively?&nbsp; Within the game world?&nbsp; They operate in IDENTICAL ways.&nbsp; You can have staring contests with a medusa in every single edition, so long as you make your saves.---------------Wicht - we've been over this.&nbsp; There is nothing precluding SSSoD from EXACTLY the same set up.&nbsp; Building tension in game is just good DMing.&nbsp; That has nothing to do with SoD or SSSoD.Then again, I play a game, I don't write fiction, so maybe that's the issue here.&nbsp; I have no interests in playing in someone's novel.&nbsp; To me, this is pretty cut and dried.&nbsp; Mechanically SoD is broken.&nbsp; It bypasses all the mechanics in order to deliver a cheap death to the PC's.&nbsp; Flipping coins to determine if you live or die isn't exciting.&nbsp; There's a reason you don't play Russion Roulette with 3 bullets.&nbsp; ------In the end, I am just going to have to drop this, because I know that I cannot convince anyone if I haven't already done so.&nbsp; I can't explain it any better than I have.&nbsp; The math of SoD doesn't work IMO.&nbsp; I have no problem with the die part, I have a problem with the fact that SoD area of effect abilities, in particular, aren't 50/50, they're about 90% likely to end in a PC death.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5442953, member: 22779"] Well, I played 3e until 3.5 came out and played 3.5 until about 09, so I do have a bit of experience with the system. Can you point me to where I missed SSSoD in 3e? I don't recall ever seeing it, but, there are lots of rules in those books, so, it's possible I missed it. Otherwise, what's your point? -------- Y'know, all this discussion about saving throws got me curious. So, I went back to my 3.0 Monster manual and actually reread the medusa, instead of going by the SRD. Funnily enough, it includes in the combat section a line that reads that a medusa will switch to its other attacks if a target "survives" (exact quote) her gaze attack. Finding that 3e says that medusa gaze attacks can be survived, I went back to my Basic book and reread the medusa and it says that if you look at a medusa, you turn to stone UNLESS you make your turn to stone save. Now, I realize I didn't look in every book, but, I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that every single D&D monster manual includes something similar. In other words, in no edition of D&D does a medusa actually work the way BryonD says that it does. In EVERY single case, you can resist the gaze attack. The only difference is that in 4e, the onset time is changed from one round to three and instead of about a 50/50 chance of failure, you have about an 85% chance of success. But, narratively? Within the game world? They operate in IDENTICAL ways. You can have staring contests with a medusa in every single edition, so long as you make your saves. --------------- Wicht - we've been over this. There is nothing precluding SSSoD from EXACTLY the same set up. Building tension in game is just good DMing. That has nothing to do with SoD or SSSoD. Then again, I play a game, I don't write fiction, so maybe that's the issue here. I have no interests in playing in someone's novel. To me, this is pretty cut and dried. Mechanically SoD is broken. It bypasses all the mechanics in order to deliver a cheap death to the PC's. Flipping coins to determine if you live or die isn't exciting. There's a reason you don't play Russion Roulette with 3 bullets. ------ In the end, I am just going to have to drop this, because I know that I cannot convince anyone if I haven't already done so. I can't explain it any better than I have. The math of SoD doesn't work IMO. I have no problem with the die part, I have a problem with the fact that SoD area of effect abilities, in particular, aren't 50/50, they're about 90% likely to end in a PC death. [/QUOTE]

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