Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Difference between 3E and 3.5 Psionics (Psionics Handbook vs. Expanded Psionics)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kae'Yoss" data-source="post: 2157308" data-attributes="member: 4134"><p>3.0 Psionics only have two base classes. Psion and Psychic Warrior. Psions select one primary discipline, and use the associated ability score as key ability score for bonus power points. They gain ponus PP for that. Psychic Warriors don't gain any bonus PP.</p><p></p><p>You need decent scores in all 6 ability scores to be an effective manifester, since every discipline has its own key ability score. So the save against your psychoportation power is based on dexterity, but your telepathy powers need charisma. You'd need 19 in all stats to have free choice of level 9 power.</p><p></p><p>Damage dealing powers are practically useless, as they often use d4s and almost never scale. Don't try to be a psionic artillery.</p><p></p><p>Several feats need a power point reserve. Once you drop below that, you cannot use it any more. Others require you to spend PP (they are like additional powers, since you have so few of them) There is no psionic focus. </p><p></p><p>Powers that are augmentable in 3.5 are often several different powers in 3.0, forming power chains. So while you only need Astral Construct in 3.5, there are 9 different Astral construct spells in 3.0. Also, concussion blast is something like lesser concussion, concussion, greater consussion, mass concussion, true concussion. The only difference is more damage dice.</p><p></p><p>There is still psionic combat, and especially the mind blast combat mode is insane. Also, it's a pain to determine the dc based on what you use and what your enemy uses</p><p></p><p>The PrC's had no "+1 manifester level" part, but instead had extra power lists (so you start again at zero)</p><p></p><p>On top of the difficulties determining the DC, with psionic combat and multiple ability dependency (as you need all 6 ability scores, one for each discipline), you had to roll 1d20 and add the other stuff, instead of just using 10 + stuff. </p><p></p><p></p><p>On the other hand, 3.5 has new psionic races. </p><p></p><p>It has 4 instead of 2 classes (one of the new ones is a complete overhaul of one of the old PrC's, the Soulknive, but the other is completely new - The Wilder, which has only very few different powers, but can boost them beyond the usual limit, has a better HD, a better BAB, and other goodness). </p><p></p><p>Powers still don't scale automatically (so while a level 7 wizard has a 7d6 fireball, your energy ball stays 5d6 unless you do something about it), but you can augment many powers - you pay an additional cost, and they become more powerful. This doesn't just include scaling for damage dealing powers, but it's also used to combine whole power chains into single powers. So instead of 9 AC spells, you just have astral construct, and can augment it. You have only one concussion blast spell, and can increase damage or get additional targets with more PP. Dominate is concentration and for humanoids only, but you can get more monster types or prolong its duration with more pp. Note: You cannot spend more PP than your manifester level, so you cannot blow all your pp into one big energy ball or something.</p><p></p><p>Most of the old power-like feats are now real powers, as are the (heavily changed) psionic combat modes (they are often completely different, only the name remains). Psionic combat is no more.</p><p></p><p>You now have a psionic focus. With a DC 20 concentration check, you can focus yourself. It takes a full-round (or move-equivalent with the right feat), and you must have at least 1 PP remaining. Some psionic feats require you to be focussed, and others require you to spend the focus in order to activate them. Metapsionic feats are among them (but they don't "cost" as much), as are feats like psionic weapon. In practice, this starts as a one-per-combat thing, as it takes a full-round action and a difficult check, but later you can refocus in the middle of the combat quite easily, taking only a move action and with higher rate of success due to a better concentration bonus.</p><p></p><p>All in all, just stay away from it, 3.5 expanded psionics rules are vastly superior. Just don't use the psionics are different rules unless psionics are a major theme in your campaign. And you might want to cut down some of the augmentations down to size (especially the energy powers, which increase the DC by one with every pp invested, instead of +1dc for every other pp)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kae'Yoss, post: 2157308, member: 4134"] 3.0 Psionics only have two base classes. Psion and Psychic Warrior. Psions select one primary discipline, and use the associated ability score as key ability score for bonus power points. They gain ponus PP for that. Psychic Warriors don't gain any bonus PP. You need decent scores in all 6 ability scores to be an effective manifester, since every discipline has its own key ability score. So the save against your psychoportation power is based on dexterity, but your telepathy powers need charisma. You'd need 19 in all stats to have free choice of level 9 power. Damage dealing powers are practically useless, as they often use d4s and almost never scale. Don't try to be a psionic artillery. Several feats need a power point reserve. Once you drop below that, you cannot use it any more. Others require you to spend PP (they are like additional powers, since you have so few of them) There is no psionic focus. Powers that are augmentable in 3.5 are often several different powers in 3.0, forming power chains. So while you only need Astral Construct in 3.5, there are 9 different Astral construct spells in 3.0. Also, concussion blast is something like lesser concussion, concussion, greater consussion, mass concussion, true concussion. The only difference is more damage dice. There is still psionic combat, and especially the mind blast combat mode is insane. Also, it's a pain to determine the dc based on what you use and what your enemy uses The PrC's had no "+1 manifester level" part, but instead had extra power lists (so you start again at zero) On top of the difficulties determining the DC, with psionic combat and multiple ability dependency (as you need all 6 ability scores, one for each discipline), you had to roll 1d20 and add the other stuff, instead of just using 10 + stuff. On the other hand, 3.5 has new psionic races. It has 4 instead of 2 classes (one of the new ones is a complete overhaul of one of the old PrC's, the Soulknive, but the other is completely new - The Wilder, which has only very few different powers, but can boost them beyond the usual limit, has a better HD, a better BAB, and other goodness). Powers still don't scale automatically (so while a level 7 wizard has a 7d6 fireball, your energy ball stays 5d6 unless you do something about it), but you can augment many powers - you pay an additional cost, and they become more powerful. This doesn't just include scaling for damage dealing powers, but it's also used to combine whole power chains into single powers. So instead of 9 AC spells, you just have astral construct, and can augment it. You have only one concussion blast spell, and can increase damage or get additional targets with more PP. Dominate is concentration and for humanoids only, but you can get more monster types or prolong its duration with more pp. Note: You cannot spend more PP than your manifester level, so you cannot blow all your pp into one big energy ball or something. Most of the old power-like feats are now real powers, as are the (heavily changed) psionic combat modes (they are often completely different, only the name remains). Psionic combat is no more. You now have a psionic focus. With a DC 20 concentration check, you can focus yourself. It takes a full-round (or move-equivalent with the right feat), and you must have at least 1 PP remaining. Some psionic feats require you to be focussed, and others require you to spend the focus in order to activate them. Metapsionic feats are among them (but they don't "cost" as much), as are feats like psionic weapon. In practice, this starts as a one-per-combat thing, as it takes a full-round action and a difficult check, but later you can refocus in the middle of the combat quite easily, taking only a move action and with higher rate of success due to a better concentration bonus. All in all, just stay away from it, 3.5 expanded psionics rules are vastly superior. Just don't use the psionics are different rules unless psionics are a major theme in your campaign. And you might want to cut down some of the augmentations down to size (especially the energy powers, which increase the DC by one with every pp invested, instead of +1dc for every other pp) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Difference between 3E and 3.5 Psionics (Psionics Handbook vs. Expanded Psionics)
Top