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General Tabletop Discussion
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Different philosophies concerning Rules Heavy and Rule Light RPGs.
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9597939" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I definitely did not watch the video (though I may have seen a bit of it years ago). But that's beside the point. What you're describing is exactly what I expected it was... and as one example, doesn't do a whole lot to support your argument. As I said, we can provide individual examples of misunderstood play for any game. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So I'll try and clarify, and I'll repost what my comment was in response to.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, you start off by talking about what characters want... but this isn't all that relevant in this context. It may align with what the player wants, it may not... it will depend on a lot of factors. Very often, yes, player desire and character desire are aligned. But if we are talking about one in particular... which I think we are when we're talking about the play of the game... then it's not helpful to muddy the waters. </p><p></p><p>You then go on to assume that there is "always someone" driven by "Fantasy" (I assume this means Power Fantasy?) and a "desire to win big". I read this as challenge-based play? So, this is you saying that this is therefore a concern at almost every table, and in almost every game. So, perhaps not "universal" but merely "nearly omnipresent". </p><p></p><p>I don't know if "spotlight and shining moments of awesome" are all that important at all times, either. I mean, certainly I want to be involved in play... I don't want to just watch others play when I'm supposed to be participating as well. But I certainly don't begrudge anyone if the spotlight time isn't divided evenly. In that very basic sense, yes, spotlighting is something that comes up and is a concern, but I don't know how much that matters. Meaning... different groups will have different takes on it. And sure, we all like our characters to get what they want... but we also enjoy the risk of failure that comes along with play. That things are uncertain. There are definitely times I don't want my characters to get what they want.</p><p></p><p>In my last Scum & Villainy game, the biggest moment for my character was when he resisted a roll to prevent damage to his ship, and then took enough stress to be out of the scene. Hardly a victory... but it was a cool moment, nonetheless. It showed what was important to him and how far he'd be willing to go to protect it. He got a Trauma as a result... four of which means your character must retire... and I took "Obsessed", with the focus of his obsession being the ship's maintenance and condition. It was a character defining moment that had nothing to do with victory or a "shining moment of awesome". </p><p></p><p>So, I think the lens you are viewing all this through... that there is one consistent take on play that will matter at all tables... is flawed. Those concerns... power fantasy fulfillment or challenge-based play may not be important to every player or every game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I don't know if it's realistic to assume anyone will immediately grasp a game and how it works in one session. Especially if they may be inclined to not understand in some way... or if there is more than just trying to understand at risk. Like say, if the video is made for entertainment purposes. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have a variety of preferences. That doesn't have much to do with it. I think it's astonishingly bad because of the implications it has if applied to other games. They don't seem accurate, and certainly wouldn't be flattering in most cases.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 9597939, member: 6785785"] I definitely did not watch the video (though I may have seen a bit of it years ago). But that's beside the point. What you're describing is exactly what I expected it was... and as one example, doesn't do a whole lot to support your argument. As I said, we can provide individual examples of misunderstood play for any game. So I'll try and clarify, and I'll repost what my comment was in response to. So, you start off by talking about what characters want... but this isn't all that relevant in this context. It may align with what the player wants, it may not... it will depend on a lot of factors. Very often, yes, player desire and character desire are aligned. But if we are talking about one in particular... which I think we are when we're talking about the play of the game... then it's not helpful to muddy the waters. You then go on to assume that there is "always someone" driven by "Fantasy" (I assume this means Power Fantasy?) and a "desire to win big". I read this as challenge-based play? So, this is you saying that this is therefore a concern at almost every table, and in almost every game. So, perhaps not "universal" but merely "nearly omnipresent". I don't know if "spotlight and shining moments of awesome" are all that important at all times, either. I mean, certainly I want to be involved in play... I don't want to just watch others play when I'm supposed to be participating as well. But I certainly don't begrudge anyone if the spotlight time isn't divided evenly. In that very basic sense, yes, spotlighting is something that comes up and is a concern, but I don't know how much that matters. Meaning... different groups will have different takes on it. And sure, we all like our characters to get what they want... but we also enjoy the risk of failure that comes along with play. That things are uncertain. There are definitely times I don't want my characters to get what they want. In my last Scum & Villainy game, the biggest moment for my character was when he resisted a roll to prevent damage to his ship, and then took enough stress to be out of the scene. Hardly a victory... but it was a cool moment, nonetheless. It showed what was important to him and how far he'd be willing to go to protect it. He got a Trauma as a result... four of which means your character must retire... and I took "Obsessed", with the focus of his obsession being the ship's maintenance and condition. It was a character defining moment that had nothing to do with victory or a "shining moment of awesome". So, I think the lens you are viewing all this through... that there is one consistent take on play that will matter at all tables... is flawed. Those concerns... power fantasy fulfillment or challenge-based play may not be important to every player or every game. Yeah, I don't know if it's realistic to assume anyone will immediately grasp a game and how it works in one session. Especially if they may be inclined to not understand in some way... or if there is more than just trying to understand at risk. Like say, if the video is made for entertainment purposes. I have a variety of preferences. That doesn't have much to do with it. I think it's astonishingly bad because of the implications it has if applied to other games. They don't seem accurate, and certainly wouldn't be flattering in most cases. [/QUOTE]
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