different style?

[redwing]

The campaigns we usually play are hack and slash. I (the DM), would like to inject a little more ROLEplaying into the game. How do I set up political intrigue and other scenarios that force roleplaying instead of brute force?

Also....how do I add riddles into my game? I just don't want to have them lying around. What rewards do you give? Are they just there for players to answer and open the secret door? what other scenarios do you put riddles into.

I wanted the players to have a meeting with "the fates". I would like them to speak in riddles but have no idea what questions the players would ask. Probably the who, what, where, when, why, and how. If you would like to help come up with riddles...the campaign is about great norse heroes summoned together to prevent the upcoming ragnarok...although they don't know it yet....... If you can also think of adventures that would be of any use...please contribute. I was wanting to have them meet gods and heroes of legend as well as partake in some of the great sagas themselves and destroy great monsters of legend.

 

[sithramir]

My first suggestion in a step towards more role playing would be to make them talk to everybody they meet. IE you enter the supply shop and Tommy Undergallows that halfling greets you "Hello friend! How may I help you?" and try to use realistic voices (humorous also help get people into it) like a high squeeky halfling voice. This has 2 effects 1) they are forced to start talking instead of saying "i go buy rope" and 2)helps them picture it in their mind and get them into the world more.

Also adding more descriptions of things helps get them into the world and having them ALWAYS use each others game names keeps them more in the game. Only allow them to talk out of game for questions like "Well can I jump over the wall? How high is the ceiling? Etc with answers like "Roll a jump check or the ceiling is 12' high with large wooden timber beams that look a bit rotted"

These are ways that I took to start getting more into role playing with my players. Also having certain characters have strong personalities when they interact can help the pc's get their own personalities going. Make them argue with you or barter with you or have them say things 2 pc's will argue together (but things like in game so theres not an out of game dispute).

Make suggestions like "Your a cleric wouldn't you want to bring your faith to the thieving children. Perhaps a lecture is do" This can help remind them what character they play and to try to act like that character.

 

[Voadam]

Norsemen have a tradition of insulting and challenge fighting, there were berserker duelists who provoked others into insulting them then challenging them to an honor duel . Getting provoked into insulting a hefty barbarian/fighter who wants to duel is a great way to transition from hack and slash to roleplay. You can then get into weregild and blood feuds if they end up killing their opponent out of the arena.

Riddles can be like traps, challenges that a PC must figure out or work around but do not ever let them roll to figure it out, this should be roleplayed. If they ever stumble upon a dragon he can challenge them to a riddle contest to let them past, if they fail he will devour them (they then fight) but he might reward clever PCs (a wizard might wish to challenge him so he will teach rare spells).

 

[Sam Witt]

The campaigns we usually play are hack and slash. I (the DM), would like to inject a little more ROLEplaying into the game. How do I set up political intrigue and other scenarios that force roleplaying instead of brute force?

Use challenges that violence will not resolve. Very strong NPCs are one way to do this (but a bit heavy-handed) but you can also set it up so that the only way to resolve a challenge is to get two or more parties to agree on something. Yes, you could kill them, but then the challenge remains. An invasion by a foreign power is a good example: the heroes have to travel to the north to convince a rival group of fractious warlords to band together, because the Fates have revealed that the Frost Troll army is on the move.

The characters could, of course, just go up and start thumping heads with the warlords, but it won't help - even if you kill the warlords, their people won't follow you and the invasion will roll through Norswedefinland like hell on wheels. The key is to have a meeting with each of the warlords, find out what they want for their aid, then help them get their desires. Of course, two of the warlords have to have conflicting desires, so the characters have to work it out.

Political/intrigue games are all about finding out what someone wants and how helping them get what they want will get you what you want.

Also....how do I add riddles into my game? I just don't want to have them lying around. What rewards do you give? Are they just there for players to answer and open the secret door? what other scenarios do you put riddles into.

Do . . not . . use . . riddles. Ever. I'm serious. They make people cranky and are about the fastest way I've seen to peeve off the whole group of players. I use them occassionally just to see if I'm wrong on this point, but it always turns out the same. Players hate riddles. They suck.

Of course, I will now hear from the thousands of you that are riddle freaks. You will tell me that the battle between Gollum and Bilbo is the best thing in all the Ring saga and that clearly I suck for not having captured this most glorious moment in each and every one of my adventures. To you I say this:

You are wrong. Riddles suck.

Seriously. I'm not kidding.


The other thing about riddles is the manner of their implementation. They virtually always feel contrived and, unless you're doing some sort of Challenge of Champions (a fine set of adventures), they will feel out of place.

I was wanting to have them meet gods and heroes of legend as well as partake in some of the great sagas themselves and destroy great monsters of legend.

This can be cool - but have the characters replace the heroes of legend. No one wants to say, "Dude, I was there when Beowulf busted Grendel's arm off and beat him bloody! It rocked!" Rework the sagas with a little obfuscation so the characters get pulled into them and take on the leading roles and I think you'll have something really memorable and cool.

But, you know, don't put in any freakin' riddles.

Sam

 

[Utrecht]

I am going to second the whole Riddle thing. If I want to challenge my brain, I would subscribe to Games Magazine.

Second, Riddles are ironically enough the anti-thesis of Role-Playing since suddenly you are utilizing the Players mental stats and not the PCs.

 

[redwing]

well i can kinda see your point on the riddles. But I'm thinking If I give them a necklace at say level 1 and (hopefully they don't sell it...or maybe they do and have to retrack it down)...they will forget about it until they have to enter the Realm of Hel and there is a riddle (kinda easy....but they already had a big clue, giving them a necklace and all) that states that the necklace would be the only way to enter.

I also want to have a couple of puzzles. Not so much the Zelda "push the blocks around to form a picture, so the door will open" puzzles but something to that effect, so dungeons aren't all "kill, take stuff, kill the main guy, take his stuff, kill a couple of things while leaving, take some more stuff".

And as far as riddles go....if they get stuck I can always have them roll an appropriate knowledge skill to remember clues. Basically all puzzles and riddles will fit into the plot and the underlying theme. So they should have enough peices to finally put the puzzle together when they get to that point.

 

[redwing]

oh and which is better: Deities and Demigods OR Bastion Press's Norse Gods? I already downloaded the latter at my favorite price (free...) and it has stats for all the major gods. Are they about the same in Deities&Demigods? what are the gods that are in D&D that aren't in Norse Gods? And which are in Norse Gods that aren't in D&D?

 

[infax]

Riddles can be fine (Yes, I'm one of those that appreciate them) but it rarely does to have them as necessary to advance the game. I tried it a couple of times and it was very frustrating. If riddles are bonus things or an aspect of the game that can be solved anyway it is fine but if it is essential it can end in a deadlock.
If you put in riddles, I would also advise against letting the players roll. Two reasons: one, if they roll low you won't have anything solved and the lock will continue, unless you allow them to keep rolling until they succeed and then there isn't much point to the riddles; second, if they succeed on an easy roll, the next time a riddle presents itself they won't try to solve it, just to roll.

Puzzles are very popular and quite distinct from riddles in most gamers minds, I would think. You can have all kinds of puzzles, from a difficult to cross (underground) river to rooms with a blocked gate and several levers, only one of them (or one sequence to activate them) opening the gates and others bringing down nasty surprises (actually, to me those are the kinds of traps that make the most sense in an inhabited area, a trap that can be easily evaded by the place's inhabitants). WotC has a book with just puzzles, "Book of Challenges", though I can't say anything of the quality of them. Anyway, most modules have a couple of interesting puzzles that you can pick and use in your games as you see fit.

 

[Deadguy]

Do They Want to Role-Play Too?

Just to inject a note of caution, redwing:

Have you asked your [/i]players[/i] whether they want to add more role-play and political intrigue to the game?

It's very important when introducing a change of style that you try and get your players onboard in advance. If you start following this good advice above, and they aren't either expecting it or wanting it, you may quickly end up with a peed off group and then no players! Okay, pretty extreme, but I assure you it can happen.

Be prepared for the possibility that your players might simply prefer a nice easy hack-n-slash game. If so, there's no value in preparing lots of material for these people that they never use. If that turns out to be the case, then you either need to suck it up, and accept that you are not going to be running RP-intensive games with these people. But perhaps another group (or a sub-group of your normal players) will want to try your RP ideas out.

A final thought on role-playing. For me, a really good role-play session is about bringing the world to life, of making it feel as real as the other world around you. As a guide to this, think about your own experiences. Whilst you've never fought dragons or stood before a king, you and your friends are likely to have overcome challenges (even if it's just struggling to grasp some math for a test!), and you know what 'authority figures' are. Draw on that, and you'll find you bring a feeling of reality to the world and to the NPCs.

Good luck, redwing!

 

[Voadam]

I'd use riddles just like I would traps, you can get past them through cleverness or suck up some damage if not.

An example, in the old Mayfair games Demons supplement there was a tough demon you could summon and bind to guard a gate and he would stay there and stop anyone who tried to get past. However, part of its nature and the nature of its binding meant that if you could beat him at a riddling game he had to let you go past. So if you beat him you go on, if not he tries to take your soul but you can still get past him by fighting him. It presented options, inlcuding "Forget the riddles I draw my sword and attack!"